Callistrid vs Pitaman (no Pitaman plz)

[Callistrid]

I've start a new game with the following rules (se below).

House rules:
1. No airbase strike after T01
2. No para drop at all
3. Max 3 ground attack/hex
4. Max. 3 ground/city/port bomb/hex.
5. No HQ bomb
6. Max 2 HQBU/rail line (based on FBD line) in 1941

Game settings:
My troops have +1 attack, but the fort build level was set to 75 % (both side), and the transport level set to 60 %, what is a huge change.
On my first turn the -40 % transport capacity forced me to make hard decisions. I was unavaile to build a strong defense line around Pskov, and on south some of my troops will be encircled. The good news, several unity has enough time to refit, so I start disbanding the Inf corps, and the SAD air bases converting the manpower to the ground troops.

[Callistrid]

T01, Full frontline

My opponents opening was bad, and I had chance to open the Bryansk, Kowel and Lvov pocket. Several HQ-s, left the pocket, using they 50 MP, and most of SU was sent back to the STAVKA, saving the manpower.

On south the panzer spearhead was encircled, that will slow the german efforts on T02. Odessa will be defended, because that is major port, and important supply source, so I must defend at all cost, slowing the german advance on South-Ukraine.
5 division will be encircled next turn, if the german will go to Bessarabia.

On center, I've start building the wall of steel, but the transport capacity will slow that process.

Leningrad, and Ukraine seems to be the german main object.

[Callistrid]

T01, Odessa, Kiev and Smolensk defense line

[Callistrid]

T01 Leningrad

The critical front, what could be indefensible due lack of capacity. My opinion Leningrad will fall on T10-11, so the industry evacuation will be the primary task after T02, and send troops just to slow the german attack.
9-10 German panzer/mot division will clear the path, but I won one extra turn, because the 18th and 16th army must eliminate the encircled soviet troops, and clear the way to Pskov.

[STEF78]

Very beautiful maps!

Just a question about turn :
I always take Brest-Litovsk and ignore Riga The exact opposite was done here What is the best?

[Callistrid]

Riga is the most important task on T01. That city is a major port, plus important supply center. Playing with germans it's necessary to capture that city, otherwise the soviet will reinforce, and will be the pain in your butt

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

Riga is the most important task on T01. That city is a major port, plus important supply center. Playing with germans it's necessary to capture that city, otherwise the soviet will reinforce, and will be the pain in your butt

I usually let this job to the Infs following. Pzd's are hammering through Pskov. Preventing the wall of iron is my priority

[Callistrid]

Riga can fall on first turn. You need two panzer unit, with 2-3 enginieer SU, and Stug. Allways work, and necessary to do it.
Infantry troops could only take on T03, what is a huge time, and unit waste.

[STEF78]

At the cost of a non sealed Pocket in the center?

[Northern Star]

You can take Riga with only one panzer division + 3 support units and you will have more units to seal the pockets.

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Very beautiful maps!

Just a question about turn :
I always take Brest-Litovsk and ignore Riga The exact opposite was done here What is the best?

You should easily be able take Riga, Brest litovsk, and keep the center pocket closed. Taking Riga prepares for the push towards Pskov in any case as 2 x Pz Div are across river plus in order to take Riga you open up a speedy corridor for the infantry to use early. The key is getting the infantry east as fast as possible. Pz Spearheads without infantry are vulnerable.

Allowing the Minsk pocket to be opened as in this case is really a setback. The Lvov pocket isn't as big a deal as long as you cut the rails they're dead anyway. More and more lately I'm beginning to think the Lvov-Romania pocket isn't the way to go. Better to take the mktours approach and cut rails at proskurov while preventing the escape of good soviet units east of lvov. Depending on the opening I also think the SHC often falls back too quickly in the south. Even delaying a few turns can make a big difference so long as you don't get caught....

[Callistrid]

ORIGINAL: mattp

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Very beautiful maps!

Just a question about turn :
I always take Brest-Litovsk and ignore Riga The exact opposite was done here What is the best?

You should easily be able take Riga, Brest litovsk, and keep the center pocket closed. Taking Riga prepares for the push towards Pskov in any case as 2 x Pz Div are across river plus in order to take Riga you open up a speedy corridor for the infantry to use early. The key is getting the infantry east as fast as possible. Pz Spearheads without infantry are vulnerable.

Allowing the Minsk pocket to be opened as in this case is really a setback. The Lvov pocket isn't as big a deal as long as you cut the rails they're dead anyway. More and more lately I'm beginning to think the Lvov-Romania pocket isn't the way to go. Better to take the mktours approach and cut rails at proskurov while preventing the escape of good soviet units east of lvov. Depending on the opening I also think the SHC often falls back too quickly in the south. Even delaying a few turns can make a big difference so long as you don't get caught....

It's impossible creating the Lvov-Rumania pocket, because the soviet has clear rail line near the rumanian border.

[Callistrid]

T02 North Front

This is the most critical sector, where the german try break my lines, and drive toward to Leningrad. North from Pskov, the german panzer crossed the lakeside area, and flanking my defense line. I will try to hold the region, and next turn send more reinforce, building the Luga line. Will be a hard task, because I must save my industrial capacity on south.

[Callistrid]

T02 Center

My opponent made several mistakes, what will be indefensible taking Moscow.
His panzer spearhead was cut, Minsk recaptured, and the way of 9th, and 4th army is blocked. Several units from the Bryansk pocked still exist, and they created a thin front line, what is a miracle.
Pitaman did a worse job, allowing me to evacuate them, and he lost the territorial gain in T01. And I have no idea why he stoped the 4th army, and drive them to the swamp area, and wasting them.
He's in a big trouble there, and the Dnypr river seems to be far.

[Callistrid]

T02 South

This front line is less worse then the center is, but the Kowel pocket is reopened, just like a minor pocket around Rovno. They way of the 6th, and 17th army is blocked, so the 1st, and elements of the 2nd panzer army need to fight themself. The german infantry support will arrive on on T05 around Kiev, and perhaps need more time reaching D-town, so Pitaman is still in big trouble. Without infantry support advancing on ukraine will be risky.

[MattFL]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid
It's impossible creating the Lvov-Rumania pocket, because the soviet has clear rail line near the rumanian border.

Yes I know they have the rail near Romania, what I'm saying is that rather than pocket everyone towards the Romanian Border (Lvov pocket) I think it may be better to push hard east with the panzers and attack hard with the 6th and 17th Army. Units near Stanislav and Romanian border can use that line, but that's a fair trade off for being further east and locking down all the good Russians between Rovno and Tarnopol. You can't isolate them on Turn 1 (at least I can't, not all of them) but you can prevent them from getting away and bag them on Turn 2. So the total destruction is similar, probably greater, and you are much closer to Kiev....

I use to do standard Lvov opening and never actually attack much with panzers, now I'm beginning to change my mind on it.

And from the latest screens, Pitaman's in big trouble. How many units are in that pocket in the center, can't really see? Once those hexes flip it's quite a far ways to rescue them...

[Callistrid]

You need to activate the 11th and rumanian army. Kiev is a bad option, because your troops will be far from D-town, and Kharkov, what is the main object on south.
Locking Rovno and Tarnopol need half of the 2nd pz Army troops, what could be a great deal, but if you wish to lock those troops, pushing around Tarnopol is necessary, and you need only one pz division driving to the rumanian border.
However, the greater Lvov pocket, with +1 rule is impossible, and will cause more time dealing with those troops, instead let them run east.

And about pitaman... he can rescure his panzer spearhead, but he's in trouble, because the infantry divisions are far, and with the +1 rule, the panzers could be beaten hard. So he cant try breaking my lines without infantry divisions who could flank his R/L side, or assault with them.
Right now I won 2-3 turn, and he can only cross the river around T06-07. But in maintime, I will build a solid defense line.

He's only hope is to concentrate his spearhead around Velkie Luki, using the close rail lines support + HQBU. But sending the 4th army to the swamp was a real bold idea.

[MattFL]

I used to think that as well, but I'm changing my mind on it trying to reach Kiev T2 (or lock it down). At minimum this alternative strategy force SHC to send less north to stabilize the south. Since reading MKTOURS AAR I think there's something to the deep drive east in the south.

As for this current AAR, will be interesting to see what happens.

Also I don't ever play +1 as either side, i don't think SHC needs it.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: mattp

I used to think that as well, but I'm changing my mind on it trying to reach Kiev T2 (or lock it down). At minimum this alternative strategy force SHC to send less north to stabilize the south. Since reading MKTOURS AAR I think there's something to the deep drive east in the south.

As for this current AAR, will be interesting to see what happens.

Also I don't ever play +1 as either side, i don't think SHC needs it.

I think MKTours was using the same exploit that Sapper made use. Before the recent patch, ports repaired immediately and could be used as a base to trigger HQBU, so a strategy based on the Black Sea coastal region made sense,

I agree about +1, no need for it. You need to change your ideas a bit about how/when to counterattack but if you choose your spots you can still upset an over-confident German player

[STEF78]

Looking at the map, Pitaman seems to be all in for Leningrad. He has considerably reinforced AGN and weakened AGC.

Maybe it's a mirror of his game against Pelton where, as russian, he created a wall of iron in the north and lost the game in the center/South.