Naval combat

lecrop · Post by **lecrop** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:22 pm

Any details about this? [&o]

Lobster · Post by **Lobster** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:58 am

There will be navies and there will be combat. Now you probably know as much as we all will till Bob gets the green light. [;)]

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:53 pm

I'm playtesting Pacific At War with Thomas Harvey, the scenario designer, and there's about 190 turns
and we're on turn 131 so far. We are both having a blast using trial and error to figure out what works best
with the ships with spotter planes aboard and we've discovered a few things. It's best to leave your TF's
clumpped together when you park them for the turn. That way they can support each other with their built-in
arty. Also, it's best NOT to have ships escort the LCU's that move from point A to point B because ships are
an interdiction magnet and ordinary land combat units don't seem to draw all that much in terms of air strikes.
Many aircraft had to give up their lives to bring us this information.

rhinobones · Post by **rhinobones** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:09 pm

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Also, it's best NOT to have ships escort the LCU's that move from point A to point B because ships are
an interdiction magnet and ordinary land combat units don't seem to draw all that much in terms of air strikes.

Sounds gamey. Would expect that transports would be treated as high value targets and interdicted accordingly.

Regards, RhinoBones

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:55 pm

Sounds gamey. Would expect that transports would be treated as high value targets and interdicted accordingly.

From what I understand the target priority is for CV's first, then BB's, then CA's and the smaller ships and then I suppose the
transports are dead last. And I can verify that the strike aircraft do indeed tend to strike the higher value targets first. I suppose you
could adopt a house rule that all transports have to have at least one DD as escort(s). I remember when playing WITP-AE it
was unadvisable to send a naked transport TF out of port without at least an AM or a minesweeper or SOMETHING as escort.

berto · Post by **berto** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:05 pm

Please, no house rules. Any TOAW IV worth its salt (water) should have naval rules that directly encourage, if not mandate, realistic naval ops. Without going into WITP-like detail and micromanagement, still, a half-baked TOAW IV naval implementation will be a big disappointment. Abstract where necessary, but do please Get It Right.

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:52 pm

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I'm playtesting Pacific At War with Thomas Harvey, the scenario designer, and there's about 190 turns
and we're on turn 131 so far. We are both having a blast using trial and error to figure out what works best
with the ships with spotter planes aboard and we've discovered a few things. It's best to leave your TF's
clumpped together when you park them for the turn. That way they can support each other with their built-in
arty. Also, it's best NOT to have ships escort the LCU's that move from point A to point B because ships are
an interdiction magnet and ordinary land combat units don't seem to draw all that much in terms of air strikes.
Many aircraft had to give up their lives to bring us this information.

How is Pacific War related to TOAW?

Meyer1 · Post by **Meyer1** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:16 pm

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I'm playtesting Pacific At War with Thomas Harvey, the scenario designer, and there's about 190 turns
and we're on turn 131 so far. We are both having a blast using trial and error to figure out what works best
with the ships with spotter planes aboard and we've discovered a few things. It's best to leave your TF's
clumpped together when you park them for the turn. That way they can support each other with their built-in
arty. Also, it's best NOT to have ships escort the LCU's that move from point A to point B because ships are
an interdiction magnet and ordinary land combat units don't seem to draw all that much in terms of air strikes.
Many aircraft had to give up their lives to bring us this information.

How is Pacific War related to TOAW?

It's a TOAW scenario.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:35 pm

It's a TOAW scenario.

There IS a TOAW III version that you can download from GameSquad or Rugged Defense or somewhere or other, but the one that
Thomas and I are playing is the version for TOAW IV specifically. There's been a lot of changes and updates and additions, one of
which is PBY's and spotter planes that spot from the ship, usually a CA type. Ships can spot too but not very far and usually the range
of the Jap planes is about 27 hexes, which is really handy in a knife fight.

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:53 pm

ORIGINAL: berto
Please, no house rules. Any TOAW IV worth its salt (water) should have naval rules that directly encourage, if not mandate, realistic naval ops.

+1. Treating transports as low-priority targets and thus encouraging sending them out without escorts seems...odd.

Curtis Lemay · Post by **Curtis Lemay** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:54 am

TOAW IV uses the same naval targeting priorities as PacWar. Embarked units have their priority based upon their weight. If Larry is seeing no interdiction of unescorted embarked units, then he's found a bug that needs to be fixed - but it sounds like he hasn't done rigorous tests, exactly).

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:44 am

but it sounds like he hasn't done rigorous tests, exactly

Yeah, no rigorous tests but it's just that Thomas and I have observed that unescorted embarked units don't get
intercepted as often as ships. I've seen Allied units float from Pearl to Kwajaliene without getting intercepted once
and I had some Betty's on Truk.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:26 am

It turns out that there's only one way to give an aircraft Naval Air Movement so spotter planes can be made to park on ships but then so can
fighters and bombers. So Thomas and I made a house rule that CA's can't carry anything but spotter planes, no fighters and no bombers.

Meyer1 · Post by **Meyer1** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:33 pm

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

TOAW IV uses the same naval targeting priorities as PacWar. Embarked units have their priority based upon their weight. If Larry is seeing no interdiction of unescorted embarked units, then he's found a bug that needs to be fixed - but it sounds like he hasn't done rigorous tests, exactly).

What is PacWar?

josant · Post by **josant** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:42 pm

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

TOAW IV uses the same naval targeting priorities as PacWar. Embarked units have their priority based upon their weight. If Larry is seeing no interdiction of unescorted embarked units, then he's found a bug that needs to be fixed - but it sounds like he hasn't done rigorous tests, exactly).

What is PacWar?

I suppose that this means "Pacific War", a game from Matrixgames that now is free and you can donwload in the following link: http://www.matrixgames.com/products/235/downloads/

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:25 pm

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
So Thomas and I made a house rule that CA's can't carry anything but spotter planes, no fighters and no bombers.

So without a house rule, fighters and bombers can land on cruisers? Not an encouraging sign for TOAW IV naval warfare...

Curtis Lemay · Post by **Curtis Lemay** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:58 pm

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
So Thomas and I made a house rule that CA's can't carry anything but spotter planes, no fighters and no bombers.

So without a house rule, fighters and bombers can land on cruisers? Not an encouraging sign for TOAW IV naval warfare...

No. Fighters and bombers cannot land on cruisers - normally. Thomas Harvey has done some sort of kluge to his BBs/CAs to allow them to sport spotter planes.

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:59 pm

ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
So Thomas and I made a house rule that CA's can't carry anything but spotter planes, no fighters and no bombers.
So without a house rule, fighters and bombers can land on cruisers? Not an encouraging sign for TOAW IV naval warfare...

You have to do to the spotter plane what you have to do to fighters and bombers to get them to park on a ship. So...........

EDIT: You're basically turning the BB / CA into a carrier as seen by the planes. It's a secondary icon trick in the editor.

josant · Post by **josant** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:42 pm

The aircraft carriers have a limit to carry aircrafts, normaly they are limited with no more than 90 planes (in a super aircraft carrier) but currently under toaw 3 engine, if yo want, you can land in it units with more than 1000 planes or more (for example).

My question is; this has changed in Toaw 4?

larryfulkerson · Post by **larryfulkerson** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:46 pm

ORIGINAL: josant
The aircraft carriers have a limit to carry aircrafts, normaly they are limited with no more than 90 planes (in a super aircraft carrier) but currently under toaw 3 engine, if yo want, you can land in it units with more than 1000 planes or more (for example).

My question is; this has changed in Toaw 4?

Thomas has fixed his carriers so that they can carry one unit and that unit can have whatever equipment a squadron usually carried
so that would be about 16 Wildcats or 28 Zeros or 24 Vals etc.

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