2 losses when 2 ENG units are used

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Germany used both ENG units to give benefits in combat.

Axis have destroyed ENG unit as 1st unit. Can they destroy any unit or do they have to destroy 2nd ENG also?

[paulderynck]

Only one engineer needs to be destroyed when an engineer loss is mandatory.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Thank you Paul for telling me what I wanted to hear [:)]

[Joseignacio]

I am not so sure.

22.4.1

If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).

Maybe it's because I am not a native speaker, but I am not so sure this means one eng that gives a benefit needs to be sacrified but each one ... I would understant it this way, to be true.

[Mayhemizer_slith]

Yes, the first loss. It does not say they have to take all possible losses. That is how I undestand it.

[AlbertN]

The game seems in absolute terms to always care of the "First Loss" only - giving freedom of choice to what is the next loss.

So if you are fighting with an ENG, using Winterized units, and on the Blitz table - well you only have to lose the ENG first (and one ENG unit only, if you have more than one, you choose and you can choose the worst of them) - and you do not have to lose next a Winterized unit or a MOT / Armour unit.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I am not so sure.

22.4.1

If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).

Maybe it's because I am not a native speaker, but I am not so sure this means one eng that gives a benefit needs to be sacrified but each one ... I would understant it this way, to be true.

First loss does not mean second loss or even third loss, it means first loss.

[nilssone85]

Another question then,
Winterised units attacking with blitz units using the blitz table. I was forced to kill of an expensive ARM instead of the winter unit. I guess this is correct, but just wanted to check

[Joseignacio]

Well, in my opinion, if you phrase it like it's in the rules it's not clear. It was never asked in my experience what happens with two engineers and two losses, in the wifdiscussion group, or at least I haven't found it; however, it seems to be very clear for the group that there is no requirement in WIF as for the second loss, be it an ENG, a winterized or an armor. So, I was wrong in the interpretation (remember I only suggested doubt,not that it was not that way). [:'(]

Which sends some shadows towards the way we have been playing it at home, I think sometimes we applied compulsory losses to an armor or winterized if the first one was an engineer. [:(][:@]

This is by Bill Popovich, a renown wiffer:

There is never a "second loss" requirement. Once the first loss is taken -
no additional requirements. And no combination requirements - FREX you
could take a non-MOT ENG in a blitz when an ENG is required as first loss.

)

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: nilssone85

Another question then,
Winterised units attacking with blitz units using the blitz table. I was forced to kill of an expensive ARM instead of the winter unit. I guess this is correct, but just wanted to check

That is correct per RAW7.

[brian brian]

so the obvious question becomes

let's say there is a Blitz attack including 2 Engineers supplying benefits and one, but only one, of them is motorized ... and the attacker takes a loss.

same basic question could be posed for 2 ARM units, one winterized, one not I guess, no other motorized or winterized units included, say just some leg infantry and attacker takes a loss. Defender would likely suggest the winterized ARM would have to go but the attacker would probably want to pick the non-winterized naturally. (Only applicable for USSR)

I think I know the likely answer ... does MWiF?

[paulderynck]

The owner always chooses the units to lose and must obey the rules. There's no dilemma, or doubt involved here, for the boardgame at least.

[Joseignacio]

Brian, following the requirement of the rules: engineer, winterized, blitz unit, ..., if there are several units that fulfill the requirements owner chooses. I guess this is respected in MWIF.