Supply question

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:23 am

Question:

I have a RCT in Tulagi that is self sufficient in regards to support. By this I mean it's supply requirements are = or less than it's support value (depends on the number of support/combat squads active at the time).

I also have 3-4 times the unit's required supply stockpiled at the base. Why then does the unit show a big fat red zero on its screen under "supply"?

(edit: sorry it is a RCT not a BCT)

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:14 am

Whats it's fatigue, how many parts disabled, how many support parts disabled? How many parts destroyed? Did it just arrive? (I have noticed that units sometimes reflect LAST turn's status)...

A unit can obviously go from fully supported to hurting due to malaria rotting it's poor supply staff. I would assume that disabled parts still consume supply unless utterly destroyed, just cause you are in bed doesn't mean you don't keep the doctors busy and eat now and then ...

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:58 am

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Whats it's fatigue, how many parts disabled, how many support parts disabled? How many parts destroyed? Did it just arrive? (I have noticed that units sometimes reflect LAST turn's status)...

A unit can obviously go from fully supported to hurting due to malaria rotting it's poor supply staff. I would assume that disabled parts still consume supply unless utterly destroyed, just cause you are in bed doesn't mean you don't keep the doctors busy and eat now and then ...

Why would it make a difference how many parts are disabled?

It has a support number that exceeds its supply needs. That should be it, right? The support number changes as the number of disabled men changes, so I would assume that is enough.

It has a pretty high fatigue (in the 70's I think)...but again, why does that matter?

If the support number is not a true reflection of the amount of support a unit creates, then what the hell good is it?

(not ranting at you Mr. Frag, just ranting in general

)

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:18 am

Support and Supply are 2 different things.

One can be in good condition and the other in poor condition.

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:35 am

Originally posted by Joe 98
Support and Supply are 2 different things.

One can be in good condition and the other in poor condition.

Ah...yes...

(my first post)

I have a RCT in Tulagi that is self sufficient in regards to support...I also have 3-4 times the unit's required supply stockpiled at the base. Why then does the unit show a big fat red zero on its screen under "supply"?

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:35 pm

Originally posted by Grumbling Grogn
Why would it make a difference how many parts are disabled?

The support number changes as the number of disabled men changes, so I would assume that is enough.

It has a pretty high fatigue (in the 70's I think)...but again, why does that matter?

If the support number is not a true reflection of the amount of support a unit creates, then what the hell good is it?

(not ranting at you Mr. Frag, just ranting in general )

Support has nothing to do with Supply. Supply is the amount of goods (ammo, food, etc) consumed during the turns action (ie: defend with no attack = low use, full out shock assault = extreme use). Supplies are individually draw by the unit.

Support is whether the rear line troops are doing their jobs, cooks, docs, command & control, etc. Support is given to the base and summed up then applied against all units there to cover them off.

With multiple units in a location, the support may be nowhere near enough, even though a individual unit has more support then it needs. The support comes from the base, not the unit as I understand it ... could be wrong, but thats the way I read it ...

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:10 pm

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Support has nothing to do with Supply. Supply is the amount of goods (ammo, food, etc) consumed during the turns action (ie: defend with no attack = low use, full out shock assault = extreme use). Supplies are individually draw by the unit.

Support is whether the rear line troops are doing their jobs, cooks, docs, command & control, etc. Support is given to the base and summed up then applied against all units there to cover them off.

With multiple units in a location, the support may be nowhere near enough, even though a individual unit has more support then it needs. The support comes from the base, not the unit as I understand it ... could be wrong, but thats the way I read it ...

LOL!

I guess I am not being clear (although I am not sure what I have left out...

).

Supply is supply and support is support... Supply is beans and bullets in the warehouse and support is the guys that cook the beans and repair the guns... Yes I know that.

Tulagi has ONE unit in it (a RCT).

This RCT unit generates enough support for itself (IIRCC it currently generates 101 and requires 99).

Tulagi has plenty of supplies stockpiled for the BCT to use (again IIRCC it has about 225-275 units of supply stockpiled in the base--yeah not much but it is only one unit).

My problem is when I open the unit's detail screen it's little number that indicates the amount of supplies USED by the unit, it shows a big, fat, red zero...and the units fatigue keeps going up, and up, and up...

Perhaps I can post a screen shot tonight... :rolleyes:

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:51 pm

Can you post the unit details and the base details?

Gotta be something here ... notice the results sum up to match exactly.

I load scenario 17 as Japan, the 84th Naval Garrison sits in Buka, a location with no supplies...

Base:

Supplies: 0
Supplies Required: 54

Support: 24
Support Required: 30

Unit:

Supplies: 0
Supplies Required: 54

Support: 24
Support Required: 30

You are saying the Unit Supplies is 0

A RCT at rest in Noumea consumes 259 supplies. Never seen a BCT unit, wondering if you are bringing in < 259 supply a turn, it is getting completely used by the unit during the two supply phases, and you end up getting the report each day that the unit has 0 supplies yet at the same time, you are moving another 250 supplies into the hex. You see the 250 supplies that just arrived, but the supply phase happens before the air transport mission flies out to drop off the supplies I think.

Could be a timing thing where you are using the supplies overnight that you bring in only to have none left for the day supply cycle followed by you bringing in enough for the overnight cycle ... and round and round we go with a perpetual Supplies: 0

Only thing I can think of that makes sense

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:42 am

Hi, What is the base supply condition? Is the base out of the red?
I don't think ground units will stockpile supply if the base is in the red (Even though there is enough supply per day the unit will not fill it's space unless the base has surplus supply)
Still the unit should not suffer as long as it is getting it's daily supply.

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:43 am

Here are the screen shots of the base and the unit.

Beats the heck out of me...

Please note that one of the reasons the fatigue is so **** high is because the thing has been out of supply like this for several days (a week?).

oh, and he is NOT getting supply every day (I wish!) more like once or twice a week he gets some but from what I can tell he never uses ANY so whats the point?

Any help welcome.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:08 pm

ok, you got me

The numbers don't add up, yet they must! Post that one in the bugs section with the save...

Sonny · Post by **Sonny** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:42 pm

The only time I look at individual supply is when units are marching or invading. But they do seem to restock once a week when marching. Don't know about on base though. Just assumed that if base was in supply that the unit was in supply. Also in your example the base does not have a months supply so that might affect how the supply is handed out to the units.

This question has always puzzled me when looking at the supply for invading units. Does the supply on a ship go with those troops on the same ship? Since you don't have a base to look at when invading you have to do the math in your head (oh horrors!) to figure out if the total supply is enough for al the troops.

Guess we need an official explaination.

HawaiiFive-O · Post by **HawaiiFive-O** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:54 pm

The only thing I can think of is the manual mentions that units will instinctively begin to curtail operations in order to stretch out the available supplies, if it feels there are not enough supplies on hand.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:14 am

The only thing I can think of is the manual mentions that units will instinctively begin to curtail operations in order to stretch out the available supplies, if it feels there are not enough supplies on hand.

Not enough supplies should show up as a pink number, not a red number. Red is dire, pink is warning, from what I've seen in the game, and even if there was not enough, it would still show that it was using the number, not a big red 0 from everything I have seen.

HawaiiFive-O · Post by **HawaiiFive-O** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:42 am

But think about this. Typically a unit "fills up" with more than the needed supplies. More than double has been my experience.

This might be a bug wherein the unit wants to "fill up", but the supplies on hand are not enough.

I say, get more supplies there and see what happens.

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:53 am

Originally posted by HawaiiFive-O
But think about this. Typically a unit "fills up" with more than the needed supplies. More than double has been my experience.

This might be a bug wherein the unit wants to "fill up", but the supplies on hand are not enough.

I say, get more supplies there and see what happens.

Well... If this is the problem then it is a bug.

I have well over twice the needed supplies for the unit in the base and have had such for close to a week.

If the unit needs TWICE it's supply number to be in supply...

It is either a bug, or it needs to be explained a heck of a lot better in the manual.

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:35 am

Hi GG,

I've seen this happen for a couple of days with troops I've just landed on a base. I dump lots of supply next to them, and one unit (e.g., an engineer) will swim in supply, whereas the next (often an infantry unit, like your RCT) will have zero. After a few days -- or even after an attack -- suddenly the INF unit "finds" the supply and all is well. I've written it off as a consequence of the chaos of unloading at a beach under fire. But I confess I've never had it last as long as a week. Especially not when you have pretty good amounts of support in the hex. So I too would be curious to hear what Matrix thinks about this.

dherche · Post by **dherche** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:02 am

GG:

Did some testing on this. Get the base supplies up to 4 times the amount needed by the unit. This worked for me. The unit did not start using the supplies until there was 4 times needed. e.g. 250 points supplies required = 1000 points supplies on hand. The unit then starting using the supplies.

Also, I stockpiled the base but the unit DID NOT add more supplies to its' total. It continued to use supply points (9 per day) until it reached 2 times required needed (500 points). Then it began to dip into the base supplies to stay around the "Times 2" mark.

Grumbling Grogn · Post by **Grumbling Grogn** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:59 am

Originally posted by dherche
GG:

Did some testing on this. Get the base supplies up to 4 times the amount needed by the unit. This worked for me. The unit did not start using the supplies until there was 4 times needed. e.g. 250 points supplies required = 1000 points supplies on hand. The unit then starting using the supplies.

Also, I stockpiled the base but the unit DID NOT add more supplies to its' total. It continued to use supply points (9 per day) until it reached 2 times required needed (500 points). Then it began to dip into the base supplies to stay around the "Times 2" mark.

Huh, I wil do my best but considering the location of the unit this will be a bit hard. Why four times? Is this a feature that has not been documented? Or a bug? Or what?

Would have been nice to know this before I dropped the poor bastards there too.

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:06 am

Hi, From the sceen shot the supply the base was using was exactly what the unit required. However there was not enough supply at the base for the unit to both eat and stockpile (it would eat the base supply)
So, The unit is in supply. (It is not suffering from lack of supply)
However it is not stockpiling supply. It appears in 2-3 days it will begin to suffer from lack of supply (even if it stockpiled the supply , using all the base supply the unit would still eat it and be out)
You need to get several K supply to this base ASAP.

Supply question

Supply question

Okay, let me try this again...

Unit supply base supply

Screenshots...

Try this

Re: Try this

Looks normal to me