Unit visibility--ambush/hide abilities?

[DSteckel]

Just purchased the game this weekend and really enjoying it--especially with the ASL mods! Really brings back some good memories--

I do have a question though: Are *all* enemy units always immediately discovered when you have LoS to them? Is there no way to hide or trigger an ambush otherwise?

I was playing Tutorial IV yesterday, and my two bazooka teams were immediately spotted and shelled by the Marder and two StuGs on Turn 1. My 57mm ATG managed to get one StuG before it was the crew's own turn to take a dirt nap. I had hoped that units in cover/concealment would not be so immediately discoverable without firing/moving first.

[DoubleDeuce]

Any unit in LOS is automatically spotted.

[parusski]

ORIGINAL: DSteckel

Just purchased the game this weekend and really enjoying it--especially with the ASL mods! Really brings back some good memories--

I do have a question though: Are *all* enemy units always immediately discovered when you have LoS to them? Is there no way to hide or trigger an ambush otherwise?

I was playing Tutorial IV yesterday, and my two bazooka teams were immediately spotted and shelled by the Marder and two StuGs on Turn 1. My 57mm ATG managed to get one StuG before it was the crew's own turn to take a dirt nap. I had hoped that units in cover/concealment would not be so immediately discoverable without firing/moving first.

I have enjoyed the game for several months, and brings back memorys of playing the board Squad Leader.
Can't answer your questions though

[genesismwt]

ORIGINAL: DSteckel

Just purchased the game this weekend and really enjoying it--especially with the ASL mods! Really brings back some good memories--

I do have a question though: Are *all* enemy units always immediately discovered when you have LoS to them? Is there no way to hide or trigger an ambush otherwise?

I was playing Tutorial IV yesterday, and my two bazooka teams were immediately spotted and shelled by the Marder and two StuGs on Turn 1. My 57mm ATG managed to get one StuG before it was the crew's own turn to take a dirt nap. I had hoped that units in cover/concealment would not be so immediately discoverable without firing/moving first.

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Try some of the user made scenarios. You can't HIP in the game. But you can come close in games where you place your units. Hold one or some for a later turn, in the hopes of catching an enemy in a bad spot.

I adapted "North Bank" to try this out. The AT gun for the Brits does not appear until turn two. It's not true HIP, but being able to catch King Tigers with side shots is a big help.Once placed, you will have a prep fire before they can be fired on.

If you like a scenario that already has units placed, then use the editor to make your own version and modify it so that you can "HIP" the units of your liking. Also, just because it can be put on board on the first turn, does not mean that you must do so.

Try it with "Agony of Doom" or "The Mad Minute". Look at the scenario in the editor before you start. Write down where you are going to put the units(very HIP like) Start the scenario and just don't place you intended HIP units until a turn and circumstance of you choosing. Also, pick an alternate hex to be safe, the game won't let you place a unit in a hex that the enemy is in or has passed through. I suggest writing down hexes before you start as it makes it much too easy to just have your pick of spots when you choose to place the hidden units.

Hope this helps!

[Gerry4321]

Very creative. But I really hope they add some concealment benefits for units, esp. AT Guns.

[DSteckel]

genesismwt-- Great tips! Thank you--I will try some of those.

I've been playing primarily the Combat Mission series of games over the past decade or so, and love the visibility/FoW settings it supports. But I grew up with AH games like SL/ASL, so TotH is a real joy to find. I'll try some of your tips to stage some creative ambushes.

[GJK]

Yes, unfortunately Concealment doesn't work in ToTH like it does in ASL. Hopefully that will be something that Peter can add in a future version of the game or in an expansion.

[DamienThompson]

It probably ends up tilting the balance of the scenario in favour of the attacker a bit because dislodging concealed units from stone buildings is a real pain. Probably worth tweaking scenarios a bit in favour of the defender.

[genesismwt]

Good point! I would recommend doing that for the AI. I don't usually do it for myself, as there's other ways to keep the AI at bay as a defender. That may change with the rumored patch.

And as always, there is always the bane of SL, skulking. I admit that I will use it when there is a buttoned afv in my face, and no other targets and no AT weaponry. No sense in just being a target dummy.

Concealment would be a nice addition though. I am no programmer, but I would think that it would be doable from what I understand of the mechanics of the game.