Questions on new 1.08.09 Patch!

[rainman2015]

Hi yall...

Well, we JUST started a new game using 1.08.08 this week, and i am about half done with my German first turn. Hate to have to redo it dang it! Killed 5038 Soviet planes for one thing...

Some questions about converting to 1.08.09 immediately.

1) Is it possible to just load up 1.08.09 and keep playing, or do we need to restart the entire campaign game to be totally safe if we convert to 1.08.09? Remember, only half way thru turn 1.

2) I have heard that there is a BIG problem (LOKI i believe) with the German panzers never taking losses with 1.08.08 and this leading to major mid-late-game issues for the Soviets. Is this solved with 1.08.09 with the following addition from the 1.08.09 errata?

'17. Removed extra protection from German and Finnish AFVs in combat, it is no longer required with the introduction of combat events.'

3) I have heard horror stories about the Soviets bombing the hell out of the German air bases using night bombings, so we implemented a house rule of 'no night air base attacks'. Do the new 50% reduction in night bombing effectiveness and the ability for the Germans to set fighters to be night AND day at the same time effectively kill this trick by the Soviets, thus no house rule needed?

4) Other than the 2 air bombings per hex per turn, what in your opinion are the other really important 1.08.09 fixes that make it worth using vs 1.08.08? Maybe lowering the Soviet morale some in 41 is a big help? Anything else?

Thanks!
Randy

[Northern Star]

Hi Randy!
About the planes destroyed in the first turn, it's possible to reach 5400 planes without ground support and without overrun airfields [;)]

Question 1... I don't think there will be problems to upgrade during turn 2 or later

Questions 2 and 3 I don't know...

Question 4... I always used the house rule of no more than 3 bombings of a single hex... Now this house rule of no more than 2 will be automatic... I don't see a great difference, except there will be many less planes destroyed...

[NotOneStepBack]

How did you nab so many plane kills on the first turn if you don't mind explaining? I usually get about 4k...

[chaos45]

So the new morale table lowered German morale more in 1942?

The reason I ask is it seems this will really turn the game in the soviets favor fast as the war goes on. Maybe im wrong but that by the end of 1942 the German infantry will be really weak fast if they get hit at all successfully.

[rmonical]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

How did you nab so many plane kills on the first turn if you don't mind explaining? I usually get about 4k...

I am working on this. It has to do with maximizing your Ju87s. I am going to pull out everything.
1. It turns out that if you move 10 LW to 51,80, it can hit Tarnopol; I use it to take out 54,66 then move it south and assign it to V FK.
2. By the time Romania and 10 LW have flown, we are up to 2700+ kills. 10 LW took out 4 major bases.
3.After flying the Ju87s, you need to find targets for the other tac group in 16th LW which has a little more range - not very useful
4. You need to fly the Do17s next. They are the most range limited LBs.
5. Then fly the He111s and Ju88s
I got to 5251. But I had FOW off - you have to know exactly what to target. More detailed micromanagement can probably get that last couple of hundred that others get.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

So the new morale table lowered German morale more in 1942?

The reason I ask is it seems this will really turn the game in the soviets favor fast as the war goes on. Maybe im wrong but that by the end of 1942 the German infantry will be really weak fast if they get hit at all successfully.

No, German morale is actually a bit higher because the reduction of -5 points by -1 point per month starts in 1/42, not 11/41. The same goes for future -3 point reductions, instead of December they start in January.

Slovakia got a bump to follow Hungarian levels (they were previously in the same group, not with Rumanians and Italians).

It is the Soviet morale that now raises earlier in 1942, 1943 and 1944, to make them more dangerous earlier (in time for Uranus, Kursk and Bagration):
- from 45 to 50 starts 8/42, not 11/42
- from 50 to 55 starts 1/43, not 7/43
- from 55 to 60 starts 11/43, not 2/44
In turn they lost their high (but steadily dropping) morale in early 1941.

So it will be mostly Soviet infantry that will be stronger, not German that will be weaker. Actually, thanks to replacement priority Germans should have a bit more strength, because they will get more rifle squads and tanks into line, rather than support squads.

[Confusedesh]

ORIGINAL: rmonical

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

How did you nab so many plane kills on the first turn if you don't mind explaining? I usually get about 4k...

I am working on this. It has to do with maximizing your Ju87s. I am going to pull out everything.
1. It turns out that if you move 10 LW to 51,80, it can hit Tarnopol; I use it to take out 54,66 then move it south and assign it to V FK.
2. By the time Romania and 10 LW have flown, we are up to 2700+ kills. 10 LW took out 4 major bases.
3.After flying the Ju87s, you need to find targets for the other tac group in 16th LW which has a little more range - not very useful
4. You need to fly the Do17s next. They are the most range limited LBs.
5. Then fly the He111s and Ju88s
I got to 5251. But I had FOW off - you have to know exactly what to target. More detailed micromanagement can probably get that last couple of hundred that others get.

Well thanks a lot I managed to get to 4500 kills with FOW turned on normally I was at 3500 and I seemed have missed 4 and 5.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: NotOneStepBack

How did you nab so many plane kills on the first turn if you don't mind explaining? I usually get about 4k...

It's easy, but you HAVE to max your Stukas. The Stukas west of Bialystok take out that airfield, then move north to Prussia and combine with the other Stukas there to take everything near Prussia out purely with Stukas.

Then the Stukas near Brest take out the airfield near Brest, they then move south and attach to AGS, taking out by themselves every airfield near AGS within Stuka range (and i mean to 0/0)

Then the short range Rumanians take out the airfields within their range (and don't forget those 24 tactical killers, they can take out hundreds by themselves if lucky)

Then the long range Rumanian bombers plus the German bombers in Rumania take out the air around Odessa and several airfields east of there.

Next, you have NOT used your JU88s or HE111s or DOs at ALL yet, and they now take on to the best they can the airfields further east, around Kiev, Minsk, Riga, and further east.

5000 killed, your planes are all maxed and can't hit anything else.

[rainman2015]

ORIGINAL: Northern Star

Hi Randy!
About the planes destroyed in the first turn, it's possible to reach 5400 planes without ground support and without overrun airfields [;)]

Question 1... I don't think there will be problems to upgrade during turn 2 or later

Questions 2 and 3 I don't know...

Question 4... I always used the house rule of no more than 3 bombings of a single hex... Now this house rule of no more than 2 will be automatic... I don't see a great difference, except there will be many less planes destroyed...

Thanks...i also PM'ed Morvael yesterday these same questions, and on his OK we updated mid-first turn to 1.08.09, and it worked great. Had to disable my JSJME mods and reinstall them, but other than that, no issues.

The only downside is that we lose the 'data' stuff if we don't restart (i.e. the detail changes to the units, etc, the stuff detailed after the bug fixes, but i don't care enough about all that to restart, i can live with 1.08.08 data level)

Randy

[Farfarer61]

I have not bombed the RUS airfields on T1 in ages. Let their AF be clogged with crap for a year or more. Especially with the relatively recent limitations and house rules. Until it gets "crunchy" in autumn 41, LW is subordinate to the logistics effort.