Upgrades - Grrr

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sPzAbt653
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Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

About these Reinforcements and Upgrades, I get that they are a large part of the game and strategy, but its quite a chore and takes up a lot of time. I've seen where some have asked for Reinforcements to somehow be made available to multiple units at one time, but I think that would be more work as we would have to figure out, every turn, the cost and viability, plus the impact on the current turn regarding movement and combat. I don't really see it being beneficial. However, for Upgrades I see it differently, because they require much more planning as the unit must be withdrawn form the line to get them. This is only my first game but twice I've already become pretty frustrated during the infantry upgrade process.

I guess this suggestion might be undo-able in the current game system, but I'd much rather somehow pay more to have the upgrades done automatically at the beginning of the turn they become available. Boom, everybody gets the upgrade, done. No need to lose individual units for three turns over the course of umpteen turns.

Plus and besides and furthermore, historically entire corps weren't removed from the line in order to get an upgrade. If training were required for new equipment, small units or groups of officers would be sent to the training ground and they would impart what the learned on the rest of their units. The whole process can be considered part of the rotation of personnel and equipment in and out of the line that isn't represented in the game [and doesn't need to be].
n0kn0k
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by n0kn0k »

I just want a Max upgrade and reinforce button. And be able to do it in the same turn. [;)]
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

But wouldn't that only be useful in situations where you had so many MPP's that the cost of upgrades and reinforcements doesn't matter ? I say this because I haven't been able to make an upgrade to all units in one turn, nor reinforce all units in one turn because either action would consume all my MPP's. Also, if there aren't enough MPP's to make all the U's or R's, how is it going to decide what to do ?
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

I'm pretty surprised nobody cares about this topic enough to respond, it's not a game killer but is a large game play issue. For example, it's late in my game and the Western Allies are having a bombing campaign all over Northwest Europe. I just got an Anti-Aircraft upgrade and I need to upgrade all units and resources as soon as possible. I should have timed it but I didn't, but it took over 1,000 MPP's and I was exhausted when done. And that was only for one front. So many clicks - click a unit, click 'upgrade', click which upgrade, click ok. Four clicks for each unit, and four clicks for each resource [:@]

Then go back and do the same thing all over again if we want to reinforce a unit.
Ason
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by Ason »

I also want to be able to upgrade and reinforce at the same time, and if possible select multiple units at once.
Also a reinforce to max hotkey would be nice.
Lehnardtsson
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by Lehnardtsson »

I totally share
a system like military history would be nice, units are highlighted and in one "push" you reinforce (or) upgrade those you want
CSSS
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by CSSS »

This has always been a part of this game system, that's why most people are very used to it and love it.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

This has always been a part of this game system,

Thanks for the reply to this important topic Mr. CSS. I will point out that because something has been that way that it is good, ok, or even acceptable. For example, human sacrifice was always a part of some cultures.
that's why most people are very used to it and love it.

I haven't seen one person say that. If that is the case, then others should pile in here and respond, because Hubert and Bill are entitled to know what we all actually think. I will also point out that this is part of the reason that we all have been invited to participate here [to give feedback on game play].

saudivan
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by saudivan »

Personally, I really like the way the upgrades and reinforcements are handled. There are never enough MPP to go around, so an auto upgrade would wipe out your MPP and leave you little other options. I also think that only being able to upgrade or reinforce is OK. A unit reduced to strength one, with old equipment then takes a month to reinforce to max and upgrade. It prevents an older style unit that you have nearly destroyed from coming back as a super unit in one turn.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Good points. That's 4 that would like a change, 2 that like the way it is !

I agreed that there aren't enough MPP's on hand to do all units at once, so I had suggested that the MPP cost to upgrade be included in the research cost, and then all the upgrades could be performed by the computer once a new research level had been reached.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by crispy131313 »

So up research to 1000+ MPP, which 1 upgrade would you choose per year ?? I like it is as is. Upgrading and reinforcing would also ruin the dynamic in USSR. I always find myself having to decide whether to keep pushing the advantage forward or risk the USSR forming a defensive line while I stop to regroup, upgrade etc. The point made about a battered unit becoming a super unit is also a really good point in favour of keeping as is.
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Ostwindflak
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by Ostwindflak »

I like the old system, you either upgrade or you reinforce, not both. The decision to decide which to do is part of the fun and there are also times when I don't want to upgrade a unit for awhile, just reinforce it to save on MPPs.

I am in favor of keeping it the way it is. It is part of what makes SC its own game.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Excellent, 4-3 !
So up research to 1000+ MPP, which 1 upgrade would you choose per year ??

It wouldn't be like that, I'm sure that Bill and Hubert have put some thought to it over the years. I haven't, but an example would be something like this:

Infantry Weapons = 25 MPP's per turn per investment. Once the breakthrough is reached, all applicable units receive the next level automatically at the beginning of the turn. The percentages all work out to be the same, almost the same, or similar. The difference is that the player doesn't have to manually upgrade each unit.

I'm not on the side that wants Upgrades and Reinforcements at the same time, nor am I in favor of Automatic Reinforcements. So the above only applies to Upgrades. Those in favor of these items have to provide their own arguments. [;)]
a battered unit becoming a super unit is also a really good point in favour of keeping as is.

I think that this and Saudivan's comment refer to both U's and R's at the same time, in which case I would agree. I would point out that Moral and Readiness are also figured in, but that is not the point of the discussion.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

I like the old system, you either upgrade or you reinforce, not both. The decision to decide which to do is part of the fun and there are also times when I don't want to upgrade a unit for awhile, just reinforce it to save on MPPs.

I am in favor of keeping it the way it is. It is part of what makes SC its own game.
Well, sorry, but I can't count this vote as that is not what I am advocating. I said so in post #1.
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Ostwindflak
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by Ostwindflak »

Okay....so NO on automatic upgrades and NO to being able to upgrade when a unit is adjacent to an enemy unit. That should clear up where I stand on it.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

OK, lol. So you ARE counted and it is now 4-4 !

I don't mind getting counted out if I do. I was really curious to know what everyone's thoughts were, so thanks !

[You are all still wrong, by the way, lol] [:'(]
Ason
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by Ason »

I would like to be able to upgrade units manually but it would be nice to be able to select more units at once and upgrade/reinforce all at the same time, also upgrade + reinforce at the same time.

Having different levels of upgrades on units is nice and realistic, also adds variety and more decisions to make, so not a fan of all units automatically upgrading with research levels.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by sPzAbt653 »

4-5
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John B.
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by John B. »

I want upgrades automatically included when you buy new unit with the option to not upgrade. I keep forgetting to click each upgrade that is available at purchase and that means I have to hunt down the unit afterwards and keep it out for a month while I upgrade it.

And, I don't care if it was part of the old system, IMOHO I think you should be able to upgrade and reinforce at the same time. Just imagine ("ok men, we've spent a month integrating you replacements into the unit with your old rifles. Now, here are brand new rifles we could have given you last month but didn't so take another month to learn how to use them"). :)
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CSSS
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RE: Upgrades - Grrr

Post by CSSS »

NO on automatic upgrades and NO to being able to upgrade when a unit is adjacent to an enemy unit. That should clear up where I stand on it.


I was in the Military 8 years you NEVER got all the upgrades that were TOE and definitely not when in line action.


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