Why do CLGs perform so poorly?

Sir Rechet · Post by **Sir Rechet** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:02 pm

Just looking at the statistics, a CLG should be a good weapon - decent damage with low heat, no toHit penalties, considerably fast reload time and not excessively huge either - compared to larger cannons with ammunition, that is. Range isn't abysmally poor if you compare with other CC weapons, but doesn't quite compare with the likes of LL or AC12.

Surprisingly enough, there has been a number of complaints that this weapon is amongst the most useless ones. Why?

1) PU usage? I know there are lots of players that would choose a BRG over CLG any day, and they have the same PU usage. Can't be that one, then.

2) Shields? This is a common grief for all the energy weapons, although the inability to overload them is a definitive drawback. Might also have something to do with the Murphy's Law, ie. when you finally decide to give them a chance to show their "real teeth", you'll stumble across an enemy team with everyone having at least Class 3 shields or something like that.

3) No special effects? I suppose this could be handled by adding a ML/PL/LL somewhere, not very restrictive IMHO.

My best guess in the actual reasoning why this weapon does perform so poorly is that you need to get into range with it, and the designs that can pack more than just one of them is going to need rather large engines as well. This suggests something like Heavy or even Assault size class.

Also, even if you could technically just stand still (to release those three PUs required for running) once you've reached firing range, you'd have to be pretty lucky to end up in a position that isn't hopelessly vulnerable.

Other notes why this weapon doesn't seem to cut it?

GROND · Post by **GROND** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:03 pm

If you want a CLG design to work it pretty much (with assaults) has to have a Tesla as a shieldbuster.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:57 am

Yes, that's what I did with the Banshee. 5 CLGs are vicious, but they just die against a shield. The Tesla not only kills the shield, it blows the opponent's heat skyhigh. If he is already pretty hot, and you get a shutdown, then your CLGs will be murderous

The answer to that question, in my point of view, is simply that it is inneffective against shields and can't ignite woods. I don't see any other disadvantage.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:56 pm

I happen to really like CLGs, too. As mentioned above, if you group them with another energy weapon that can bust shields, CLGs deal out large amounts damage without much heat. Further, not all titans have shields, (though most should.

) and those are just begging to eat cold light. Heh.

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:18 am

Having previously voiced my opinion that CLGs suck i decided to give them another chance following various bits of advice from the forum. I chose an assault with a BIG engine&heat reg. and atrapped 4 CLGs for maximum damage and maximum chance to hit something(hitting the target is quite an adventure with CLGs) and 2 LL in case of poking a shield. Plasma is also a good choice as is the Tesla. I favored the LL simply cos i could take two and still hit something in case i missed with the first. No chance of two Plasmas or Teslas as their reload times are too long and heat production admirable in case you want to install a few of them in your house cos your radiators aren't up to the job.

Anyway, aside from the fact that you couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with a CLG even if you were standing in it this titan is doing a good job and i am happily taking back everything i said aboot the CLGs. When 4 of them nail your opposition all the flaws just dissapear behind yer grin

On a side note. Since i'm not the only one who seems to have problems scoring hits with CLGs unless it's almost point-blank am i the only one who almost never misses with LL? Regardles of range? And Plasmas are about 50/50 hit/miss. Again no matter how close?

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:28 am

Damned, you revealed the secret of ToS. There aren't any calculations behind the scene. CLG only hit 5% of the time, LL 95% and plasma 50%. With one exception : If the average of your characters callsign letters in ASCII is 42 all weapons will hit at 100% doing quad damage.

TitanFodder · Post by **TitanFodder** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:33 am

That's pretty brave, now just tell me that Mruphy's laws were a bunch of nonsense...

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:48 pm

So that's why I can't hit anything with energy weapons...

no wonder I like cannons more...

CrushU · Post by **CrushU** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:33 pm

Eh... I like CLGs

Admittedly, they suck against shields, but I like the law of Averages, being that if you try something hard enough, it WILL work!!

And CLGs are good for this cuz you can fire them quickly

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:44 pm

cannons cannons and more cannons.................so they may run out of ammo thats what cahinsaws are for

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:23 pm

Some very heavy energy weapons have reduced weight in TOS WS.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:25 pm

Originally posted by whitefirefox
cannons cannons and more cannons.................so they may run out of ammo thats what cahinsaws are for

Smoke screens are much more valuable in TOS. Even the AI will use them now as they can no longer be penetrated by good scanners. But you are right, relying only on cannons without ammunition might me desastrous.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:33 am

Originally posted by LarkinVB
Smoke screens are much more valuable in TOS. Even the AI will use them now as they can no longer be penetrated by good scanners. But you are right, relying only on cannons without ammunition might me desastrous.

Which, combined with the new toughness of the AI, is very nasty.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 1:55 am

so i hear but i don't have ws...........yet

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:10 am

Originally posted by whitefirefox
so i hear but i don't have ws...........yet

Soon, so it seems, though.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:13 pm

Soon, so it seems, though.

unfortunately for me the yet can mean a good while a year or so mabey..........i rarely get games right when they come out

but doing so i get a game with less bugs in it or at least some of the bugs worked out and sometimes possibly saving a little money (lets face it after 1 or 2 years most games won't cost as much as when first released)

CrushU · Post by **CrushU** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 6:50 am

2 problems with cannons, which keep them from being supreme:

They take alot of space, assuming you want ammo.
THE AMMO EXPLODES!! x(

2 problems with lasers, which keep them from being supreme:

Theres this thing called a shield...
Two words: Heat

CLG takes care of the second problem of the lasers, but exaggerates the first problem.

The problem with weapons like the flamethrower and the CC weapons is that they are just that: short ranged.

Pretty good balance, all in all... Intelligent that instead of making it a choice of which superweapon to pick from, they made flawed weapons that force you to think through strategies. *thumbs up* Good job @ Vicious Byte

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:48 am

Hi, new poster here but not-so-fresh player...
Anyways, I like the CLG - it fires slower than I'd prefer but deals enough damage to make up for it. One of my four favorite designs is my Reaver medium titan with a CLG, Blackray, and flamer. It was one of my first playable designs and seems to hold up really well.
Of course, now I'll probably get a bunch or replies wondering if I'm nuts to use that loadout, what with the secret rules of game mechanics that Hetzer won't tell me. :p

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Tue May 13, 2003 11:21 pm

well it makes sense actually

CLG to do damage while causing less than normal laser heat to yourself

BRG to knock the opponent down and all those other nifty little things it does

and the flamer to heat up the enemy and make him/her fire less

i dun think its nuts just as long as you have a good heat reg for the BRG and flamer

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:28 am

Coyote's Rule #1 of tos design is to always have enough heat reg. to fire indefinitely with shields up.

After slaughtering me with it, Hetzer said it was okay for a "puny" medium titan. :p