This forum is terrible and unwelcoming

[Timotheus]

First, the design of the forum. First page is dominated by stickies, 95% of which are useless to both newbies and veterans.

Second, the top stickies should be resources to help newbies and intermediate (and vets too - lets not kid ourselves, even someone who played this for years still looks stuff up).

This is what should be stickied, on top:
jonboym Useful Info for Beginners
tm.asp?m=2576157

Sardaukar's Newbie Tutorial AAR for Newbies
tm.asp?m=2564541

Video tutorials for WITPAE by someone
https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

I do not see the need for any other stickies in the forum at all, unless I have missed another great tutorial for this game - in that case, sticky that also. And delete everything else - it's useless trash!

Note that the video tutorials from the last link were done on a computer system and windows version which existed before the Russo-Japanese war. In some videos he is broadcasting from the moon using 1960's technology, in others he is obviously in an underwater base in the Pacific hooking up through a 1970's ex-Soviet communication satellite to broadcast his voice.

What I am saying is that the quality of the voice(not the content!) is so bad that I can barely understand every other word he speaks!

The resolution of the (swf.... and other, weird types from 1980's files) videos is so bad that it is hard to read the actual words/base names on the maps!

After roughly a minute of a tutorial video, an air raid siren comes on and totally obliterates the gentleman's voice in every single video (either it's a Japanese air raid on Oz or a 1980's PC super-fan kicks in to cool the Sinclair Spectrum personal computer).
So after a minute, I cannot understand a single word that the tutorial mentor is saying...


As a parting shot across the bow, the impression I got in the forum is that it is made up of old guys, who have learned this game through years of effort and now want all the newbies to go through the same painful process they did, with as little help given as possible. "Why, I have walked to school uphill, in the snow, barefoot, in Alaska, and to learn WITPAE I had to type the manual on my typewriter myself!".

They feel like its an elite club and no new "scrubs" are welcome in it.

Trouble is, this is the worst thing that can happen to an entertainment product (computer game) from a business/marketing perspective.

That's it for my thoughts on the matrix WITPAE forum.

[btd64]

Thing one, the sticky thing is being addressed.

Thing two, Yes, some people hear are cranky, Full of knowledge but cranky. And yes, many are older. BUT you can learn A LOT about the history of the Pacific War, and learn the game at the same time. I started with War Plan orange and ended up with AE 7 years ago. They are a ton of threads that discuss 99% of the questions that come up. But, just like in school many years ago, if you ask a question, ask it with the right pieces of available info. A picture is worth a thousand words, so post a screen shot if possible, which is the case 98% of the time. I for one will answer questions when I know the answer, or I will look it up and post that way. I even envite you or anyone to PM or email me with a question, mod idea, or artwork, etc. But you do need a Ducks Back sometimes. I do agree with you about the Business side of things....GP

[BBfanboy]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to convince others it would be good if you could present your credentials that qualify you to make such harsh judgements. Not trying to provoke arguments here, just would like to know what you have seen that I have not. For example, is there an "ideal forum" that you can point to as an example of what you mean?

For my own part, remembering back to when I got the game and was trying to learn it while busy with work and RL, I did not want a hugely detailed tutorial of what others are doing - I needed to learn by doing!

[btd64]

Learn by doing, YES. Or maybe Learning by doing.[;)]....GP

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

First, the design of the forum. First page is dominated by stickies, 95% of which are useless to both newbies and veterans.

Second, the top stickies should be resources to help newbies and intermediate (and vets too - lets not kid ourselves, even someone who played this for years still looks stuff up).

This is what should be stickied, on top:
jonboym Useful Info for Beginners
tm.asp?m=2576157

Sardaukar's Newbie Tutorial AAR for Newbies
tm.asp?m=2564541

Video tutorials for WITPAE by someone
https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home

I do not see the need for any other stickies in the forum at all, unless I have missed another great tutorial for this game - in that case, sticky that also. And delete everything else - it's useless trash!

Note that the video tutorials from the last link were done on a computer system and windows version which existed before the Russo-Japanese war. In some videos he is broadcasting from the moon using 1960's technology, in others he is obviously in an underwater base in the Pacific hooking up through a 1970's ex-Soviet communication satellite to broadcast his voice.

What I am saying is that the quality of the voice(not the content!) is so bad that I can barely understand every other word he speaks!

The resolution of the (swf.... and other, weird types from 1980's files) videos is so bad that it is hard to read the actual words/base names on the maps!

After roughly a minute of a tutorial video, an air raid siren comes on and totally obliterates the gentleman's voice in every single video (either it's a Japanese air raid on Oz or a 1980's PC super-fan kicks in to cool the Sinclair Spectrum personal computer).
So after a minute, I cannot understand a single word that the tutorial mentor is saying...


As a parting shot across the bow, the impression I got in the forum is that it is made up of old guys, who have learned this game through years of effort and now want all the newbies to go through the same painful process they did, with as little help given as possible. "Why, I have walked to school uphill, in the snow, barefoot, in Alaska, and to learn WITPAE I had to type the manual on my typewriter myself!".

They feel like its an elite club and no new "scrubs" are welcome in it.

Trouble is, this is the worst thing that can happen to an entertainment product (computer game) from a business/marketing perspective.

That's it for my thoughts on the matrix WITPAE forum.

wow ..... to come into a forum with this much attitude .... Dude, chill .. have a drink and don't dismiss your elders (my presumption here) ..... they may have some insight worth learning ... If you don't think so, fine ..... move along. but see no reason to dump into the punch bowl because your shorts are creeping up .....

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to convince others it would be good if you could present your credentials that qualify you to make such harsh judgements. Not trying to provoke arguments here, just would like to know what you have seen that I have not. For example, is there an "ideal forum" that you can point to as an example of what you mean?

For my own part, remembering back to when I got the game and was trying to learn it while busy with work and RL, I did not want a hugely detailed tutorial of what others are doing - I needed to learn by doing!

You are being way too reasonable. Considering that he wrote this:

As a parting shot across the bow, the impression I got in the forum is that it is made up of old guys, who have learned this game through years of effort and now want all the newbies to go through the same painful process they did, with as little help given as possible.

With all the help so many people here give new people over and over and over again, it's hard to imagine anything that would fall within his effort budget and still get him up to speed.

[geofflambert]

There are a lot of us old guys here, but I resent the accusation that we've learned the game. I would say that finally, someone has arrived who is like a breath of fresh air. Now, after all this time pansies will bloom and bluebirds will sing. Where have you been all our lives?

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

There are a lot of us old guys here, but I resent the accusation that we've learned the game. I would say that finally, someone has arrived who is like a breath of fresh air. Now, after all this time pansies will bloom and bluebirds will sing. Where have you been all our lives?

you have pansies and bluebirds in your shorts ?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

As a parting shot across the bow, the impression I got in the forum is that it is made up of old guys, who have learned this game through years of effort and now want all the newbies to go through the same painful process they did, with as little help given as possible.

They feel like its an elite club and no new "scrubs" are welcome in it.

Or you could just ask politely.

FWIW, I think the old guys are not so elite [;)].

[rogueusmc]

wow...

I monitor stuff via the email notifications and still pop in from time to time but real life has kept me from being too active the last few years but...wow.

this Timotheus needs a chill pill...what kind of name is that for a girl anyway?

[Anachro]

I agree that the forum itself is archaic, but I don't think most who post here can be accused of being stubbornly unhelpful. In fact, I have only encountered a strange perseverance in dealing with noobs like me. [8D]

[geofflambert]

New scrubs do fine here. That's part of the reason this game is so popular. And, incidentally, they don't know what to do with you.

This was directed at Timotheus of course.

[Canoerebel]

Earlier today (I'm not making this up), I was contemplating a post about this forum. I wish I had now.

I have been part of many forums over the years; forums that you would think would be made up of the nicest people in the world: hikers, canoers, kayakers, botanists, bird watchers, historians, etc. In nearly every instance, I have been surprised by how snarky the people can be - argumentative, mean spirited, cranky, opinionated, etc.

Contrast that to this forum, which I've been a part of since 2002 (counting UV days). The forum is overwhelmingly gracious, friendly, helpful, knowledgeable and friendly. And friendly. I am frequently amazed at how the forum self-regulates, avoiding politics or other controversial topics; bending over backwards to avoid giving offense; being gracious in victory or humble in defeat; teaching and re-teaching even when topics have been handled a zillion times.

On very rare occasions, somebody gets ill about something, but usually those people self-report and apologize.

This is the best game I've ever played; it's the best forum I've ever been associated with. If I have a question about anything historical, political, travel-related, economics, educational, etc. etc. etc., I could post a question here (or via PM) and get the most interesting and informative information from people I've known and trusted for years. I know they are credible. I know I can trust them. And if I took a trip to nearly any point on the globe and encountered a problem, I could probably find a thread-friend that would do anything to help.

To see a snarky opinion from a newbie that just walks into a room firing a shotgun is pretty surprising. I suspect that he looked into a mirror, saw a reflection, and thought it was somebody else staring back at him.

[Korvar]

Speaking as a (relatively) young guy as well as a relatively new member of the forum...

You have a good point about the format of the forum; in fact, many of the members here agree with you as shown in this current thread:
Can We Reduce the Number of Stickies?

As for the rest of your argument? To be frank, it falls a bit flat for a few reasons:

1) It's always a good idea to have a mindset of reciprocity, of give and take. When you ask a question, maybe come with a citation from the manual, or lay out your current understanding. Try to show a little due diligence and that you are not simply looking to be held by the hand for every little thing - as much guidance as anyone can give you, this game WILL exact its price in blood, sweat, and tears in any pursuit to (try to) master it. Sometimes the 'give' is nothing more than to bring a little humility and say, "Hey, I'm completely lost with 'X' - can someone please explain it to me?" Then you'll have opportunities to show due diligence in follow up questions. A little gratitude goes a long way.

That said, it immediately struck me that you didn't read much of the forum - otherwise you would have seen the current stickies thread and perhaps put the first part of your point there. Not the best platform from which to yell, "You all suck!". [;)]

2) You can find examples of less than friendly people anywhere on the internet. Read YouTube comments if you doubt this - there's a lot of crap even there to sort through in order to find the 'gems'. You'll find examples here too, but consider that given what you wrote, you're getting a lot of considered responses in this thread and are not being told to simply take a hike. That says something about the forum too.

3) If you want to put a military analogy on it - pretend you are a newly minted Lieutenant or Ensign (or appropriate 'entry-level' officer rank here). You're going to have a lot of senior NCOs with decades of experience that you technically outrank and can technically order around. Although the Colonel's approval (signature) is needed for a lot of stuff, it is actually the Chief that gets **** done. The Chief might not be a friendly guy; he's probably seen some stuff and it a bit rough around the edges. But a wise officer will look at the Chief as an opportunity to learn, even if it takes a little diplomacy and patience. The oblivious officer says to himself, "Oh, look - another minion I can crap on!" - then he wonders why nothing gets done.


So a lot of this is what perspective you decide to take and how you approach the situation. Ok, so there's a bunch of gruffy old guys here who hold all the keys to the game? Hey, maybe they have computer troubles! Or, maybe they need art for that ship they know every last detail of. Even another reliable member of the PBEM community would surely be welcomed.

It's really all up to you. [:)]

[PaxMondo]

Ah, the value of the green button ... bliss ...

[:D][:D][:D]

[geofflambert]

Well, I'm all gruffy and I don't know why. [:D]

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: scout1

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

There are a lot of us old guys here, but I resent the accusation that we've learned the game. I would say that finally, someone has arrived who is like a breath of fresh air. Now, after all this time pansies will bloom and bluebirds will sing. Where have you been all our lives?

you have pansies and bluebirds in your shorts ?

I have things in my shorts I cannot speak about. Suffice it to say I would have to eliminate you if you discovered any of them.

[reg113]

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Rogue!!! Glad to know the weeds haven't grown up!

TOMLABEL

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: Timotheus
First,

[:-]
Just look at the flowers, Timmy. Look at the flowers.... Just look at the flowers.....

TOMLABEL