Sinking in Harbor

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:52 am

I was lucky to get the Shokaku into Shortland with an 88 flotation. i had already lost the Zuikaku enroute so it was with outrage that 2 days later I received the mesage that the Shokaku had sunk in harbor. I'm sorry but I should still be able to recover the planes in a level 4 harbor. No ship should sink after 2 days in a level 4 harbor.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:27 am

Did you have an air field? Then you could recover the planes.

And I have to disagree with you about not losing a ship in a level 4 harbor. The US almost lost the Minneaopolis after the "crew had sweated for five days and nights, regaining bouyancy by inches, when a sudden bewildering gas explosion flooded several hitherto dry compartments, destroyed more equipment and caused the heartbreaking los of seven feet in draft." This while she was parked at Tulagi, a level 3 harbor.

One might also point to the Stewart which rolled over in dry dock, was supposedly demolished by demolition charges, but later reparied by the Japs and served in the IJN.

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:29 am

I've found that, as the Japanese anyway, my ships often sink even in a harbor if they have over 80 or so flotation damage. Being in a harbor doesn't seem to help. I think you could have transfered the planes off as soon as you docked, though.

Yamamoto

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:57 am

Losing the carrier was bad but i couldn't get the planes off - it was greyed out. I think with 50% sys damage this occurs. I lost full air complements in the Shokaku and Zuikaku. Zuikaku was at sea so I understand that but the Shokaku planes should have been saved.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:58 am

To get the planes off a badly damaged carrier I believe you need to disband the TF. They can then be offloaded by crane.

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:14 am

Think about it: If the flight deck has been torn to shreds, and the ship as a whole has the snot beat out of it, how are you going to get planes off of it?

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:16 am

well I did disband the TF but I didn't think to check it after that:#$^***)(*&^!!

Cap Mandrake · Post by **Cap Mandrake** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:54 am

Simply disbanding the Air Combat TF does not restore the ability to get the Air Complement off a heavily damaged carrier. I believe it is the sys damage that determines it. I had the Shokaku at Kavieng (in port) for several weeks with 54 % sys damage. Finally the sys damaged declined to 52 (I think) ...then I was able to fly them off. Of course, when I tried to send her back to Truk...my opponent put a fish into her in the middle of the Bismark sea.

In the best of all possible worlds...it would be nice if the experienced air crews could walk off the ship in harbor instead of going down with the boat.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:01 am

I seem to remember that my sys damage was in the 70's so Admiral Dadman is realistically correct to figure that the planes aren't parked nice and neat on the flight deck but probably bunched in the Hanger trapped by the jammed or collapsed elevator.

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:20 am

Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
Think about it: If the flight deck has been torn to shreds, and the ship as a whole has the snot beat out of it, how are you going to get planes off of it?

Well, since most Japanese CVs have open hangers, you could just park the ship in port, put a ramp from the hanger to the shore and push the planes off. Either that or use a crane and swing them out the side.

Yamamoto

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:40 am

Of course we are splitting hairs here, but does a size 4 port have a crane? even with open hangers, a 70 sys damage would surely impair loading. The planes are listed being carried in the carrier but what shape are they in?

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:54 am

Drex,
In my current game I had Zuikaku hit 99 sys damage and 98 flotation. I got her to Efate(yes I had captured it early) with a lvl 3 port. The planes transferred off just fine. They had been transferred off earlier but somehow landed back that turn onto a floating wreck. I don't know if that was a factor or not but I was able to recover all 3 squadrons.

Quark

bradfordkay · Post by **bradfordkay** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:04 am

When transferring planes off of a ship in port, damage doesn't matter IF you are transferring the planes to the airbase in that port. If you are trying to transfer them to a different airbase, then they need to be able to fly off the ship (requiring less than 50 sys and flot damage).

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:09 am

Actually, I'd like to see CVs that take damage (espicially fire damage) to lose a lot of their planes. I wouldn't want the pilots to die; I assume they don't sit in their planes as the CV burns for days on end. It surprises me that planes are never lost due to on-board fires.

Yamamoto

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:23 am

Thanks Quark. Looks like I made a procedural error due to my ignorance and lost 60+ planes and their crews!(gnashing of teeth and renting of garments)However I do believe the crews should have been saved and sent back to the pools.It pains me deeply.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:24 am

The planes are usually all in the air; unless, of course, you are Nagumo and the location is Midway.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:50 am

How did you know who the TF commander was?

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:37 pm

Originally posted by Yamamoto
Actually, I'd like to see CVs that take damage (espicially fire damage) to lose a lot of their planes. I wouldn't want the pilots to die; I assume they don't sit in their planes as the CV burns for days on end. It surprises me that planes are never lost due to on-board fires.

Yamamoto

Geez, how about just make the Ready Room a Hit Location and have the damage rated in Pilots?

HannoMeier · Post by **HannoMeier** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:42 pm

Maybe you could ask your opponent to redo the turn. I wasn't aware that you could offload from a more than 50+ damage carrier either.

Hanno

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:02 pm

I don't like to go back and replay turns. Its the fortunes of war and I have to live (or die)with my mistakes. Ignorance is no excuse.You can bet I will remember to disband and offload next time - and there will be a next time I'm sure.