Supply....Australia not a supply base????

[Raverdave]

Hi eveyone, the following is what Mogami posted on the "War Room, UV" thread in response to a question about supply for WiTP. It looks like Australia will not be a supply base and that everything will have to be brought in either from the US or Karachi:eek:

Australia
Hi, Currently in Alpha version (very early in testing of this routine) there are 3 supply sources (for shipment via auto routine)
Japan Osaka

Allies USA (base on US East Coast connected by rail to auto supply port San Fransico (transports placed in SF can be assigned to auto supply)

Karachi (connect by rail to off map) Ships placed in Karachi can be assigned to auto supply.

The auto supply ports will use ships assigned to system to produce TF. TF will then sail to bases that have been selected to receive supply/fuel.

Japanese auto supply TF's after delivering supply to select base check to see if there is a oil/resource base on route back to Osaka and will stop to pick up oil/resource rather then return to Japan empty.

The Allies do not require oil/resource shipments (at least I do not think they do)

I believe other bases in Home Island's also produce fuel and supply. They are connected to Osaka by rail.

Only the USA base produces supply (It is connected to US West Coast bases by rail)

I think Karachi gets it's supply by the same method (supply is produced off map, moves to Karachi by rail )

It appears to me very possible for many bases (both Japanese and Allied) to experiance supply/fuel problems if not properly managed. (Be carefull about starting too many construction projects. Running TF's around for no reason. Flying too many missions ect.)
Once sufficent ships placed in supply ports and assigned to auto supply system (low supply bases have supply in red) Players
will not have to worry about it. But it takes a while to get functioning. You can still build transport TF in port with supply and send it your self where needed.

The auto supply system is not like Pac War in that WITP auto TF's have to actually traverse the map same as other TF.

Hi, I think Northern Australia will want supply from Karachi. Whether it can travel outside Japanese air range is something I will examine during testing. Southern Australia will need supply that begins in SF. (The actual convoys to Australia might be sent from PH or other base where Allied player stockpiles it, but it will be coming by relay from USA base) Without the supply being carried to Australia it will be in supply trouble after a while.
(I do not think any base in Australia actually produces supply.)

What about Sydney? What about Melbourne? These were both the manufactoring centers of the Aussie war effort. Hell we were even exporting Pig Iron to Japan before the war!

[Zakhal]

Major cities (like aussie ones) should produce supply. Atleast small amounts for limited self-sufficiency.

[Raverdave]

I will wait for a more detailed explaination from Matrix as to why Major Aussie bases (citys) are to be excluded as supply bases. I hope that the explaination can be backed up by facts.

[mogami]

Hi, Did Ausatralia produce enough supply for all the SWPAC air/land/naval units that will arrive?
Australia does have factories in WITP (beer brewery in hex....)
The US Units do not use the same equipment as Aussies.
There is supply in Australia, (but I do not think any more is produced it has too come from outside. )



Edit: I may be wrong Australia might produce supply. One of the reasons for forum threads is for people to have an input. If a strong enough case can be built for having a location in Australia produce supply (provided enough oil and resources can be had)
Then Australia might produce a limited amount of supply.
Present your case for where and in what amout. (You must first keep the Aussie economy running before producing any "extra" supply that can be used in game terms)

[Nikademus]

Agree with the Mog man here. Austrailia provided manpower to assist the US in building up it's infrastructure there, but otherwise just about every major component and supply had to be supplied from the US......hence the emphasis on protecting the supply link between the two countries.

Making Austrailia a platform for future operations, and keeping it supplied/protected will be one of the major focal points WitP. In fact over on the UV board supply thread i'd suggested eliminating Brisbane as an unlimited supply point to resolve complaints about the operational tempo of the game. (Leaving Normura alone as the supply hub ala "Truk")

[Yamamoto]

Production is not the same as supply. Remember, Japan also produced a few things during the war , but it’s not a source of supply either. Australia must not be a source of supply otherwise there’s no incentive for Japan to try and isolate it since it can’t be isolated from itself.

I know it will bother Australians on this forum to think of Australia as “dependant” on foreign supply sources, but that’s how I’ve seen it modeled in every other game. Japan is the second largest economy in the word and it is STILL dependant on foreign supply sources.

If you argue to make Australia a supply source then you need to make the same argument for the Philippines, every country in South East Asia, Formosa, and Japan itself.

Maybe I’ve got the picture wrong. I guess if you are saying Australia produces supply, then I would say, “Sure, but it needs to import raw materials just like Japan”. As I understand it no country will have to import raw materials except Japan so therefore no country will be modeled as producing supply except the US and UK. Maybe it would be better if every city that could import raw materials was then able to produce supply. I imagine its way too late to implement that kind of a system at this time.

Yamamoto

[mdiehl]

Australia is a supply source for the Allies in WW2:PTO (SPI/TSR) and Empire of the Rising Sun (AH). It generates income for generic universal production as well. This is appropriate.

It is inappropriate to consider Aus to be *not* a source of supply as an incentive for Japan to attack Australia. The value to Japan of attacking Australia should be conquest, and it should be damned near impossible in the face of modest opposition owing to a dearth of Japanese support ships and fuel.

If the game's crieria for victory hinge upon Japanese conquest of Australia or India, and the game makes either event reasonably likely (above about a 2% chance of success), it will be just another flawed game about the PTO.

[Nikademus]

for the US to conduct defensive/offensive operations in Australia, with the prerequisite items of fuel, ordinace for warships and planes, spare parts, complete engine assemblies, and ammunition and various misc items for ground troops and plane mounted weapons in Australia, all of these items will need to be imported from the US.

Therefore, from the UV based scope of what constitutes "supply", Australia should not be made a supply source in the same vein as either the Japanese mainland (though dependant on outside sources for raw materials that power her industry) or the highly industrialized and resource rich US mainland.

To do so would be to make the cutting off of Australia from it's lifeline to the US a useless gesture. Australia does have some industry and can produce some items, however i seriously doubt WitP will have more than one kind of overall "supply" therefore it is more correct to not make that location a supply source. Even a minute amount of auto supply point generation coded in would be usable by the players in inappropriate ways because of the supply point's universal application within the game framework.

[pasternakski]

Okay, I understand that the American forces in Australia needed supply of all types in order to function, but to what extent were the Australian forces self-sustaining? Australia did, after all, contribute resources to the Allied war effort, manufactured aircraft, fielded a pretty sizeable army, and engaged in offensive operations along with American, New Zealand, and other units. I don't believe that Australia should be completely without self-sustaining supply, but rather, should automatically resupply at a level reflecting inherent Australian war-fighting capacity.

By the way, I'm p*ssed at you guys for letting Foster's be brewed in Calgary, Alberta.

[bradfordkay]

My thought is that Australia should be a supply producer, but not at a level which could support large numbers of US troops. For simplicity's sake, supply will probably be generic (not US supply neeeded for US troops, British supply for Commonwealth troops, etc.), so the amount of supply produced in Australia should be commensurate with a reasonable estimate of what the country could support in WW2.

What are Australia's oil reserves? Probably all naval fuel with have to be imported, but there should be some amount of generic supply created in Australia and New Zealand (wool uniforms? bully beef?).

[Bulldog61]

What about New Zeland. If I recall they sent a sicnificant amount f mutton to Guadalcanal (Maybe it was Nomea, will have to look that up) to help feed the Marines. Remeber this is still an Alpha version guys and a lot of things are bound to change! As has been said befor this is a grognard's game. I wouldn't be suprised to see it used by the Naval War College.

[Zakhal]

Well i hope it wont be like; If japs manage to isolate australia, after few months the aussies starve to death and japanese can just pick the continent like candy from a child.

[Joel Billings]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Did Ausatralia produce enough supply for all the SWPAC air/land/naval units that will arrive?
Australia does have factories in WITP (beer brewery in hex....)
The US Units do not use the same equipment as Aussies.
There is supply in Australia, (but I do not think any more is produced it has too come from outside. )



Edit: I may be wrong Australia might produce supply. One of the reasons for forum threads is for people to have an input. If a strong enough case can be built for having a location in Australia produce supply (provided enough oil and resources can be had)
Then Australia might produce a limited amount of supply.
Present your case for where and in what amout. (You must first keep the Aussie economy running before producing any "extra" supply that can be used in game terms)

Mogami is right and wrong. There are factories in Australia that allow some production to occur, including as far as I know, supply. I don't blame Mogami for this becaue we haven't even explained production to testers, not to mention how we are handling reinforcements, replacements, etc. All he knows now is that there is an auto-convoy routine that operates from India, Japan and the US. This does not mean these are the only places things happen. This is why we are often reluctant to have testers share information. A huge thread and debate errupts based on bad info. Don't let that stop you though, Mogami, as I like your efforts to pass info along even if it sometimes leads to this kind of thing.

[Raverdave]

Thanks for the reply Joel. At least this has been sorted !

[Snigbert]

Better to have misinformation than no conversation at all, right?

Any publicity is good publicity.

[mogami]

Hi, I said, I was not sure. But I wanted to start some converstion on the subject. I'll keep trying to keep the interested up to date as much as I am allowed. I'll try to get a few after action reports once things are solid enough for them to be meaningfull.

[Snigbert]

Sorry Mogami, I didnt mean to sound critical. I know it's tough to keep people informed when we only know half the story ourselves.

[mogami]

Hi, Snig I was saying sorry to the irate Aussies. I did not realize I might ruffle their feathers. (I promise not to bomb the Aussie beer brewery in hex xx, yy) When you going to e-mail me so I can send you this first turn?
Mogami99@aol.com

[mdiehl]

Just don't hit the only real Australian in Oz....

Rolf Harris....

[madflava13]

You can bomb the Foster's brewery for all I care...