Swedish Pro-Allied Convoy Test

[sPzAbt653]

- How effective is US diplomacy when applied against Sweden, as if Sweden is pro-Allied then it will stop sending Iron Ore to Germany.

v1.09, Hotseat Test, no actions taken other than: Germany declares war on the USA on turn 1, USA adds 5 Diplomacy to Sweden on turn 2, Germany adds 2 to Sweden diplomacy on turn 3. Answered 'No' to all DE's.

Date and percent of Swedish leaning:
Test 1, 9-39 [20% Axis], 10-39 [11% Axis], 12-39 [1% Axis] - Winter - Convoys from Sweden to Germany stop, 3-40 - Summer - Convoys from Sweden to Germany resume, 6-40 [7% Allies] Convoys from Sweden to Germany stop [the blue line was removed, Sweden was not in the end of turn Axis MPP report].

I was curious if the convoys would restart, so in July 1940 I removed all USA diplomacy to Sweden, and raised Germany's to 5. In 9-40, Sweden swung back to Axis by 4%, and convoys to Germany started again. [:)]

To add, in my last v1.09 full game as Allies against Axis computer, Sweden convoys stopped when Sweden swung to the Allies [+3%] in Sep.43.

[sPzAbt653]

Of possible interest, 5-40 USSR declared war on Germany, there were then UK convoys to USSR but none from USA, and none from the USA as of 9-40. I assume that USA convoys to USSR do not start until a specific date as opposed to USA entry ?

[sPzAbt653]

And unrelated but maybe worth noting - USA convoys from Saudi Arabia - as of 9-40 had not started, maybe they do not start until a specific date later 1941 ? And based on previous full games, they never go above 30mpp's, even if Saudi Arabia joins the Allies.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Of possible interest, 5-40 USSR declared war on Germany, there were then UK convoys to USSR but none from USA, and none from the USA as of 9-40. I assume that USA convoys to USSR do not start until a specific date as opposed to USA entry ?

Thanks.

There are no convoys directly from the USA to the USSR, but the Decision to send supplies via Vladivostock will fire once the USA has a mobilization of at least 50%

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

And unrelated but maybe worth noting - USA convoys from Saudi Arabia - as of 9-40 had not started, maybe they do not start until a specific date later 1941 ? And based on previous full games, they never go above 30mpp's, even if Saudi Arabia joins the Allies.

They just need the Saudis to have a pro-Allied leaning of at least 1% to start.

[sPzAbt653]

There are no convoys directly from the USA to the USSR,

Oh right, it goes from the USA to the UK, and then from the UK to Russia ! what was I thinking, lol ?? [8|]

the Decision to send supplies via Vladivostock will fire once the USA has a mobilization of at least 50%

That didn't happen in this first test:

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

And unrelated but maybe worth noting - USA convoys from Saudi Arabia - as of 9-40 had not started, maybe they do not start until a specific date later 1941 ? And based on previous full games, they never go above 30mpp's, even if Saudi Arabia joins the Allies.

They just need the Saudis to have a pro-Allied leaning of at least 1% to start.

This does test true, thanks. However, this message indicates an mpp increase, but there is not any actual increase ?

usa_communication_saudiarabia1

[BillRunacre]

I think I've worked it out: it's because the USA join the Allies before the USSR did.

I'll have to remove the check on the USA's Mobilization value for the Vladivostock decision, as it could happen in a normal game that the USA joins first.

These random tests can actually be useful at finding things like this because not every game will follow the historical formula. [:)]

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

And unrelated but maybe worth noting - USA convoys from Saudi Arabia - as of 9-40 had not started, maybe they do not start until a specific date later 1941 ? And based on previous full games, they never go above 30mpp's, even if Saudi Arabia joins the Allies.

They just need the Saudis to have a pro-Allied leaning of at least 1% to start.

This does test true, thanks. However, this message indicates an mpp increase, but there is not any actual increase ?

usa_communication_saudiarabia1

If the Saudis are swung towards the Allies then it will provide an MPP increase, as otherwise they are providing nothing to the US economy, so the Pop Up is correct as far as I can see.

I'm not sure off-hand if there is any capacity to increase it if Saudi Arabia actually joins the Allies, but I can check. Though whether it would have made any difference in real life, as what was there apart from oil to be used for the war effort?

[sPzAbt653]

I have never researched Saudi's contributions to the war, so maybe now I will [:)]

As it is now, when the US enters they receive 30 MPP's from Saudi. Then later in the game there is the message about investing in diplomacy to Saudi Arabia to 'increase our income', which is why I thought the MPP's would increase from 30 [especially if Saudi joins the Allies].

[BillRunacre]

Ah, that is odd as Saudi Arabia starts the game with a leaning of zero % towards the Allies, and the convoy requires it being at 1%.

So unless some diplomacy had been used by someone to swing the Saudis towards the Allies, I am at a loss to explain it. There are no Mobilization scripts to swing the Saudis.

If some diplomacy was used before the Pop Up, unfortunately I have no way to prevent the Pop Up advice if Saudi Arabia has a pro-Allied leaning of more than zero %.

But I have had a look at the convoy script and there is room to increase the MPP worth of the Saudi convoy if it joins the Allies, so I will do that. [:)]

[sPzAbt653]

I should have said 'when the US enters they receive 30 MPP's from Saudi if Saudi has an Allied leaning'.

I have no way to prevent the Pop Up advice if Saudi Arabia has a pro-Allied leaning

My thought was not a problem that the advice appears, but that the advice is misleading as it says there is a benefit, and when I see that advice I already have a Saudi Allied leaning so there is no additional benefit. Now that I know what is going on, it makes sense, but it has been confusing.

[BillRunacre]

Yes, unfortunately I can't make the Pop up only appear if Saudi mobilization is below a certain %. So providing an increased benefit when the Saudis join the Allies will resolve it. [:)]

[BillRunacre]

Actually, there is a very simple fix, to have the Saudis start totally neutral. It's so simple really! [:)]

[sPzAbt653]

Test 2, 9-39 [20% Axis], 10-39 [2% Allies] Convoys from Sweden to Germany stop [the blue line was removed, Sweden was not in the end of turn MPP report].

Test 3, 9-39 [20% Axis], 12-39 [still 20% Axis] Winter - Convoys from Sweden to Germany stop, 1-40 [12% Axis], 3-40 Summer - Convoys from Sweden to Germany resume, 4-40 [4% Axis], 6-40 [7% Allies] Convoys from Sweden to Germany stop [the blue line was removed, Sweden was not in the end of turn MPP report].

[BillRunacre]

Thanks, hopefully this potential will be used by players now, just as the US did put diplomatic pressure on Sweden during the war. [:)]

[sPzAbt653]

#2 and #3 were with v1.10b. Saudi Arabia started at 0% leaning, USA got no convoys from Saudi until Diplomacy swung them toward the Allies.

[sPzAbt653]

I spent some time searching the net for interesting bits on Saudi-USA, but there isn't much. Here are some highlights:

California Arabian Standard Oil Company [CASOC] struck oil near Dhahran in 1938, but production over the next several years remained low—
only about 42.5 million barrels between 1941 and 1945; less than 1% of the output in the United States over the same time period.
[the imported oil was not very important for the U.S. at the time]
On 16 February 1943, President Franklin D. Roosevelt declared that "the defense of Saudi Arabia is vital to the defense of the United States", thereby making possible the extension of the Lend-Lease program to the kingdom.
[mostly from] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Ara ... rld_War_II

Italy bombed the oil installations in Dhahran and Bahrain 10-19-40 causing little damage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_o ... rld_War_II

So, while I would have guessed that Saudi Arabia played a bigger part in WWII Oil, it seems that Saudi oil was in its infancy at the time and not all that important.

[sPzAbt653]

A different sort of test:

I was curious if I could delay Russia from entering on its own thru Diplomacy, so I started a new game with v1.10b as the Axis vs. the computer Allies, and I invested maximum German Diplomacy into the USSR each turn. Its quite expensive at 5 x 125 [625 mpp's]. I got a couple of real positive results that had me dreading that Russia would join the Axis, but the % leaning never went to the Axis side, it would only hit 0. So, the end result was that Russia's Declaration of War on Germany was delayed until September 1941. That's a pretty nice delay, but the USA entered in May 1941. Overall, more nice options for the players. [:)]