Question on weapon filters

[RichardAckermann]

Hi !

I have edited the Nell to use filter 2 for it's torpedo, and added a bomb with filter 4.
They use both when on normal naval strike, and only the bomb when I set the AC group to "Use bombs" on naval strike.

How can I make Nell to only use the torpedo with filter 2 on normal naval strikes?

[wdolson]

You can't and it would not be historical to do so. Aerial torpedoes are already used far more in game than they were in the real war. Bombs were used for naval strikes much more than torpedoes. Torpedoes were reserved for high value targets because they were expensive, hard and dangerous to launch, and supply was always limited.

Bill

[RichardAckermann]

There are no torpedoes at Saigon, text "using torpedoes" is red.
Nell does still drop torpedo and the alternate filter 4 bomb together.

I think nell should use filter 2 torpedoes if some are available, and bomb only if there are no torpedoes or if "using bombs" is selected.
But I did not manage to get that result. So there is no way to stop that behavior?

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

You can't and it would not be historical to do so. Aerial torpedoes are already used far more in game than they were in the real war. Bombs were used for naval strikes much more than torpedoes. Torpedoes were reserved for high value targets because they were expensive, hard and dangerous to launch, and supply was always limited.

Bill

Truer words were never spoken,(LOL)..While it seems half the Nells and Betty's in game carry torps, the Japanese only had a total of 4 squadrons trained as torpedo bombers, of those long range planes.

[btd64]

Should have a pool, like mines do. Maybe. Plus of course you need a air HQ. Maybe also a limit to the number of torps a HQ can provide, Like 20 or so....GP

[RichardAckermann]

My problem is that the Nell is using too many torpedoes.

[btd64]

Air HQ's mainly provide torps. Set the number supplied lower....GP

[RichardAckermann]

The number supplied is 0
The number in the TOE is 0 for ordnance
Nell is still using torpedo weapon filter 2
And it's dropping bomb weapon filter 4, too.

[btd64]

They have to be getting the torps from somewhere. A command HQ within 9 hexes or an air HQ and your squadron is within its command range....GP

[RichardAckermann]

Shouldnt the text using torpedoes be yellow then?
And its the first turn, all HQ should have 0 ordnance in supply.
And Nell should not use alternate load too, if standard load of torpedoes is available, right?

[btd64]

On turn one I believe torp armed aircraft get one for free. Most torpedo aircraft in game use torps for normal range and bombs for extended range. Take a look at the Avenger in the editor. If you made your own Nell then how the Avenger is setup might help you....GP

[m10bob]

If ya really want to solve the problem...go to the editor and make 2 versions of the Nell and only allow one of the types to use torps, and limit the number of that type of Nell.

[RichardAckermann]

I'll take a look at the Avenger, but as far as I remember, it is not using any weapon filters.
I will try to use the Nell without any filter to see if they get free torps in the first turn.

If they drop the standard torp replacement, this would indicate the filters are causing the torpedo to be used when it should not.

Thanks for the advice so far. I'll test now and get back here to report later.

[RichardAckermann]

Im back. If I remove the filter from the torpedo, it is still dropped. So General Patton is right. They get the ordnance somehow. The "using torpedoes" text in red fooled me.
There must be 2 different checks for the text and the actual combat.

What remains of the issue is the AC always also carry the alternate payload of filter 4, too.

[wdolson]

OK, let's step back a step. What do you mean when you say "Weapon Filter 2" or Weapon Filter 4"?

The editor has two weapons load outs, slots for Wpn 1-10 is the primary load out, and slots 11-20 are the secondary load out. I don't know what you're talking about with filters.

Bill

[RichardAckermann]

I only edit the primary loadout, as the extended range load does not use torpedoes anyway.
The filter values I set for weapons are those to set a weapon slot for a specific mission.
I got them from the thread on the new betas.

"Filter values are:
2 - used for naval attacks
4 - alternate for naval attack (like torp replacement)
8 - used for land (ground) attack
16 - used for port attack
32 - used for AF attack"

I think michael added 1 - City attack and 64 - ASW, too. Had no time yet to confirm that in a test.
slots with filter 4 seem to be used in any naval attack, so they are not an alternate choice as indicated, but a payload that gets used anyway. I intend to test what happens if I add a second torpedo slot with filter 4, but had no time to test that yet.

[m10bob]

Richard....if you decide to create two separate types of Nell, as I suggested...remember in the editor you are given the option of marking what kind of plane you are creating...If it is listed as a "torpedo bomber"...it will default to torpedoes when capable.

[RichardAckermann]

Yours is a very good idea to solve the problem I had in my test. Unfortunately it will not do for my new game. I would have to create duplicates for every torpedo carrying AC. And those duplicates would use the standard torp replacement if there is no ordnance available.

I fully agree with the people here saying there is too many air torpedoes used. Thus I setup a house rule of my own in my last game. On every 1st of a month I may buy ordnance in my Air HQs totaling Armament points / 1000. Thus limiting the number while allowing me to get more at the expense of HI. Not perfect, but more fun than unlimited ordnance.
This lead to use of bombs mostly. Unfortunately, BB and some CA are immune to 250 Kg SAP bombs, the standard replacement. In one attack I scored 30+ bomb hits on a US BB, and she walked away with minor system damage.
So I decided to define 500 or 800 Kg SAP bombs as torpedo replacement. The filters promised to be able to achieve that, but it does not seem so.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann


What remains of the issue is the AC always also carry the alternate payload of filter 4, too.

conflict with device code. I mentioned that before to you.

[Alfred]

In terms of game mechanics, there isn't much that I haven't posted on.  Use of alternate bomb loads is definitely one I have posted on extensively, both in consolidating devs posts and in expanding/clarifying them.
 
Players who bother locating my posts on a subject usually expand their knowledge of AE.  Those who don't continue to make the same errors and fail to comprehend the game.  There is a great deal of hubris exhibited by many on the forum.
 
Alfred