New Scenario for Testing...3 No Trump-2019

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:19 pm

Updated...v2.1 on 2/17/2017

It is now late May, 2019. A lot of things have changed in the past 3 years:

1. In March 2017, Russia invaded and took over the entire Ukraine. President Trump's reaction was "Ukraine is none of our business"

2. In June 2018 Kim Jong Un was assassinated, and North Korea and South Korea have united. The South Korean democratic system has been adopted by former North Korea, much to the dismay of China. The United States has withdrawn all forces from South Korea and Japan.

3. In August 2018, the United States withdrew from NATO. The entire NATO organization has disbanded and been replaced by Regional Defense Pacts between different countries. One of these defense Pacts is the Far East Defense Alliance. This Alliance includes Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. The United States and other countries have allowed members of the Far East Alliance to purchase advanced weaponry, but will not assist in any active defense operations. Korea, Japan and Taiwan have spent large sums of money up-gunning their ships and offensive/defensive capabilities. Taiwan has also purchased and hidden some Land Attack and Surface Warfare missile assets that they secretly obtained from various foreign governments.

4. Emboldened by the United States' isolationist moves, China launched an attack on Taiwan on May 28th, 2019. The goal is Reunification of Taiwan with Mainland China. It was a bloody day, with several Taiwan airbases destroyed and the bulk of their Air Force either shot down or destroyed on the ground. In return, China also took a major blow, and many Chinese fighter and bomber aircraft were lost. No nuclear weapons have been used, and it is unlikely that the situation will escalate to a nuclear confrontation. President Trump has stated that this battle does not concern the United States, and they will not intervene unless nuclear weapons are used.

It is now the day after the initial Chinese attack. China and Taiwan are both regrouping for coming battles. Japan and Korea are responding to aid Taiwan in accord with the Far East Defense Alliance. Two Support Task Forces (1 Japanese and 1 Korean) are en-route to Taipei to assist Taiwan. A Chinese Invasion Force Task Group has left Guangzhou and is heading for Tianan.

The second phase of the battle is beginning.

NOTES TO PLAYERS:

1. I have taken some liberties in up-gunning some ships, submarines and other force components to account for changes in the political and military climate over 3 years. Look over your OOB and check out your force capabilities. Note that your adversary also may have upgraded capabilities.

2. Turn your special message popups on.

3. Some of your land-based short range AAW systems are equipped with lasers. These will not be functional until Version 1.12 of CMANO. Rather than delete them, I have left them in as placeholders.

5. Set up firing zones for your longer-range SAM assets to prevent wasting missiles

Brief Update Change Log:

Deep rebuild to DB461 for use with v906.20
Added some cloud cover/weather
Numerous changes to FEDA and China side planes/facilities/loadouts
Numerous changes to China attack timing and defensive missions
Deleted many (but not all) extraneous facilities to reduce target count

magi · Post by **magi** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:37 pm

this could be fun.... hurry now.... im waiting on you......

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:56 pm

The basic mechanics are done. I might wait until the next Build release because of some Conventional Land Attack Ballistic Missile accuracy issues which were apparently fixed in the next Build. I also want to see if a MALD-J problem I reported gets resolved.

I am currently working on some "Trump Tweet" messages to be sent to you during the conflict. I'm sure you'll enjoy them.

Stay Tuned

kevinkins · Post by **kevinkins** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:25 pm

I had a dream like that other night that proceded up to about half way through your timeline. Then I woke up in cold sweat searching the TV for what was going on.

Good luck with the project!

Kevin

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:02 pm

For all you weekend warriors....first draft out in original post.

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Note there is also a game bug that shows in the message log of missiles being detected/lost well after they have hit their target or been shot down. This was reported by someone else in the Tech Support thread. The developers have it figured out and a patch should be available soon.

In the meantime, just save the game, exit Command and re-enter/reload. This stops the repeated messages.

Gunner98 · Post by **Gunner98** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:11 am

With a name like that - who could resist! [:D]

Just taking a look at the movement, impressive.

Noted one odd thing -the little Chamsuri (SK), 140 ton patrol boat probably does not belong in its current TG. Might want to split her out if she's needed or get rid of her and replace with a frigate.

When the brief talked about SK amphibs I was hoping to see the Dokdo, impressive ship for a small navy.

I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:41 am

Working on Version 2 now. The Dokdo is definitely in (with a little up-gunning [:D]), she is perfect for this scenario. Chamsuri is out...didn't notice how small she was. I'll find something reasonable to replace her.

Have fun!

Gunner98 · Post by **Gunner98** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:41 am

Ok

I've done some additional planning and setup. Before I hit run I'll pass on a couple points for you to consider.

-I added the Dokdo and an Incheon class FFG, don't know what additions your considering so I focused on playing with the airgroup.
+8x KUH-1 Amphib - designed for the ship
+4x Wildcat - Don't know if these would be standard but added due to the threat
+4x MQ-8C for some fire support
+4x Camcopter (Italian version) for some ISTAR
+4x ScanEagle same -

This is a big airgroup, the Wildcat's could be deleted and let the escort do the ASW role I guess
The MQ-8's could be replaced by Army AH-64s but these are larger and take up much more support space
I think either the ScanEagles or Camcopters not sure which one works best

For the Taiwanese Navy I found the TG fairly awkward, so I split it into 3:
-the 2x Kuang Hua I put East of the southern peninsula and south of Taitung City. These are slow and non-stealthy and serve as a last ditch missile defence against the landing area, with some hope of using the land cover for protection
-the 3x Tuo Chiang - these are cool. A 3m cross section so stealthy as hell and fast with a 38knt flank speed, and excellent missiles. But they are not very survivable with only flares, chaff and a tinfoil thick hull (150 DP). The only way for them to survive is to lurk and strike fast - hanging out with s**t magnets like the Kidd's will only get them killed.
So I put them in a separate TG off the south end of the Island and they will putter in parallel with the Radar attracting Kidds but about 60-70 miles on the better side of safe, still well within their SSM rang. If they get found out there by themselves they just need to run and run fast.
I also changed up the air group a bit, removed a couple SH-2s and added some FireScouts, so 2 of them have an SH-2 and an MQ-8C, the last one has an MQ-8B for Mar Ptl and an MQ-8C for strike.
-I really like the Kidd's, I like their history, their capability and what they represent - but with a side radar cross section of 2 Sq Km in 2019 they are wandering about with a huge 'Kick me' sign on their head [:D] The twin Mk26's are good but I'm not sure they are fast enough against a modern attack - we shall see. Don't get me wrong - they are the capital ships of the Taiwanese Navy and they need to be here.
-You may wish to consider adding a couple Kang Ding class FFGs as escort for the Kidds, I thought they were going to replace the 'Sea Chaparral' but I guess not. These, ether grouped well out or perhaps in a separate group add a bit more punch and are less likely to get detected.

If you want to play up the mine-hunting game a bit, the Japanese have some excellent stuff which could be in a separate group than the Amphibs. I might suggest the MST Uraga with its own MH-53 and a couple Hirashima or Enoshima class MSCs with some ROV's and the new Remus 600 submersibles. Don't know how they will work out in a high threat environment but I've played with them in a couple sandbox scenarios I built and they are quite good.

Couple small bits:
-Merge range circles at start
-There are some RPs SW of Taiwan which don't seem to serve a purpose. I think they represent the Chinese landing beaches but not sure.

The Briefing and the OOB look really good.

OK going in now.

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:27 am

Wow! Thanks for putting in the work. I printed your post and I'll take a look at the suggestions. I was having trouble finding good minehunters/minekillers and stealth ships with offensive firepower.

p.s. Without going into any spoilers....the Kidds give a stellar performance and can definitely hold their own.

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:19 pm

Gunner, just an additional thought. If you have added/deleted ships, you may have broken the scenario logic. I had Chinese strikes set to specific ship targets with the "Pre-planned targets only" setting enabled. So the ones you added will be "invincible".

magi · Post by **magi** » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:14 pm

okidokie.... i got it....

this looks very cool... thank you...

magi · Post by **magi** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:07 am

i really like how this is laid out so far... i believe your going to have a really nice scenario when your finished...

i agree with gunner on a number of points... i split the pgm's off.. the 3 hsun hia's behind the south end of the island.. the other 2 just off shore with the aid.s at the tainan ab... i added 2 perry class ffg's to the tf Kee Lung group... Tian Dan (FFG-1110) and Chang Chien (FFG-1109)... with Kee Lung (DDG-1801) and Su Ao (DDG-1802) (i also have always been a big fan of the kidd class ddg's)... i will take some of the seahawks off the pgm's and put them on the ffg's...

i may add a couple mq-9's or rq-4's as at lest korea and japan will have a few each around this period of time..... these rq-180's are really cool.. im glade you gave us a few....

getting reeady to kick off here... thanks for this scenario.... this is the area of my keenest interest...

Gunner98 · Post by **Gunner98** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:07 am

This is quite a good scenario - lots of nasty little surprises. I'm about an hour into the game with probably 4 hours of real time, studying it. Excellent work.

One thing that caught my eye was that the J-20 Mighty Dragons on Intercepts have their radar on. Not good for their stealth. I've gone in quickly (did not want to spoil anything) and turned it off on 'North Intercept' and 'Guangzhou Intercept', you may want to split them into their own mission in the North.

Did not go through the missions to add the 'invisible ships' there are enough targets to keep them busy [:D]

Kill sheet so far:

SIDE: China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x J-10C Vigorous Dragon
12x J-11D Flanker B [Su-27SK Copy]
2x J-16 Flying Shark [Su-27UBK Copy]
1x J-20 Mighty Dragon
2x Su-35K Flanker E
1x Y-9 Cub [High New 9, KJ-500 Rotodome]

SIDE: Far East Alliance
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F-16A Blk 20 Falcon
1x F-35A Lightning II

That bloody SAM near Fuzhou is the problem. Majority of my kills are from F-35s, lure the bad guys into traps with 4th Gen AC, tighten up the WRA on the Lightning's, come in close and

Very good fun.

b

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:51 am

Glad y'all are enjoying it so far.

Wow Gunner, with a Kill Sheet like that I may have made this too easy.

I am making changes. A lot of what Gunner put in I have changed, but I'm just hesitant to split that Taiwan group up. Those PGM boats may be stealthy but they have no defensive capabilities (or very little). A few YJ-12's and they are toast. The Lafayette class won't make good escorts with their antique chaparral SAM system. (I tried up gunning them to Sky Sword II as is planned, but can't get the sensors right for them to work). So, have I up gunned the existing Kidds with more and better RIM-66. They are the best SAM boats Taiwan has, and also carry some HF III for offensive punch.

I also found a bad boo-boo where I had some China planes at an airbase with a runway too small for them to take off, I fixed that and it will make a difference.

This scenario will play a LOT different when the Ballistic SSM bug is fixed. In the meantime please keep sending ideas.

wild_Willie2 · Post by **wild_Willie2** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:23 am

Hi Kitchen Sink,

First I want to congratulate you on producing a very interesting and challenging scenario, but of course I have some suggestions.

I am now eight hours in game time, but this took me 12 hours real time. This scenario is BIG, maybe even a bit to big for the casual gamer. Especially with all the things constantly happening in it (I LOVE the Trump twitters BTW). But while individual and separate Chinese attacks make for good gameplay, they account for BAD tactics on their part. The Chinese have enough firepower to destroy the Taiwanese AF multiple times but they use of all this firepower piecemeal and this makes it survivable, while one massive and coordinated attack would almost certainly wipe out the Taiwanese AF in one go. It almost feels like I am reading some bad book in which the enemy is stupid enough to defy all military logic and this lets the good guy's win against enormous odds :s

It would be interesting if you could coordinate these strikes a bit more to make them more realistic (Make the cruise missile strike arrive approximately at the same time as the SEAD and MRBM strikes for example).

I also think that the Taiwan AF will take an enormous pounding once the MRBM bug gets fixed, even to the point that there is nothing left to fly with :s

Anyway, great result for the first release. I'll look forward to play it again once the MRBM bug gets fixed.

W.

SIDE: China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
11x J-11D Flanker B [Su-27SK Copy]
6x Y-9 Cub [High New 9, KJ-500 Rotodome]
4x Radar (Big Bird D [91N6])
20x Su-35K Flanker E
14x J-20 Mighty Dragon
8x HQ-16B TEL
2x Vehicle (HQ-16A FCR)
6x DF-16B [Penetrator] TEL
2x 30mm China LD-2000 [Type 730]
6x Y-9G Cub [High New 11]
3x H-6G Badger [H-6M]
2x A/C Hangar (2x Medium Aircraft)
4x J-10C Vigorous Dragon
1x A/C Hangar (4x Very Large Aircraft)
2x Il-78M Midas
6x J-31
1x A/C Hangar (2x Very Large Aircraft)
8x J-16 Flying Shark [Su-27UBK Copy]
3x Ammo Shelter
2x Z-18YJ Super Frelon [Black Bat]
3x Z-9D Dauphin 2
1x Type 056A Jiangdao [593 Sanmenxia]
1x Type 053H3 Jiangwei II [564 Yichang]
2x Type 072 Yukan [Tow 25]
1x Type 041 Yuan
1x Type 051B Luhai [167 Shenzhen]
2x Su-35S Flanker E
1x Type 901 [AOE]

SIDE: Far East Alliance
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x Sky Bow III [Tien Kung 3, Mobile]
1x Vehicle (Long White 2, Mobile)
2x Patriot M901
1x Patriot M901
1x Vehicle (AN/MPQ-65)
4x F-35A Lightning II
1x F-35A Lightning II
2x A/C Hardened Aircraft Shelter (1x Medium Aircraft)
3x RQ-180 UAV
6x F-CK-1D Hsiung Ying [Ching Kuo MLU]
2x F-15J Eagle J-MSIP
13x F-2B FS-X
3x Type 12 SSM
4x F-15K Eagle
7x F-16A Blk 20 Falcon
2x F-35A Lightning II
1x EC-130H Compass Call [Baseline 1]
1x KC-46A Pegasus
1x 793 Hai Lung [Zwaardvis Mod Class]

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:43 am

Wild Willie2, these are all good points.

I'm trying to balance things to make it interesting and winnable. When the Ballistic SSM bug gets fixed I will need to adjust things for sure. I will also work more on strike coordination (Advanced Strike Planner....where are you?) [;)]. I thought I had the SEAD/GLCM strike coordinate pretty well, I'll double check.

I assume you got the China Task force with the sub. I was afraid of that. That sub seems invisible to China's ASW. (I had some ASW Bear F's that never took off due to a runway problem, that may have helped). I'll need to do some adjustments there also.

I have a habit of producing big and long-running scenarios. This is one of them. Not everyone's cup o tea for sure.

Thanks for the input!

wild_Willie2 · Post by **wild_Willie2** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:22 pm

Yes, I sank most of the TF with the sub before they got me in return. I was amazed that the Chinese ASW was so bad that I could get close enough to launch all 10 of my "crappy" 33 knots torpedoes from within 1.5 miles and sink so many ships before being sunk myself while trying to exfiltrate the area. However, I must mention that I kept on shooting down the Chinese ASW helis with my F35's....

B.T.W It would also be nice to have some standoff surface attack weapons for the F35's (JSOW/JDAM)and F16's (harpoons) in the scenario. This would make the scenario even more interesting as you could try different approaches to take on the Chinese fleet.

Kitchens Sink · Post by **Kitchens Sink** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:47 pm

That means you shot down all the CAP and Interceptors meant to guard the Chinese Fleet and ASW aircraft.

I don't think the ASW Helo's are effective anyhow. I ran thru this and had 2 helos do a dipping sonar right on top of that sub...and didn't detect it.

I have some work to do.....

wild_Willie2 · Post by **wild_Willie2** » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:45 pm

To be honest, just a few sweeps with 4-5 F-35's will kill of most of the defending CAP over the fleet and then the interceptors when they launch in response. Then the remaining defenders will go into stand-down between missions and you have a few hours between defenders launching. No much you can do against this tactic (besides putting some j-20's on CAP over the TF to make this tactic more costly). This is the problem when you have to go up against the F-35. I have even figured out that I can use them as jammers to closely escort and cover a flight of approaching ASM missiles to their target. This way these missiles can get in just a bit closer without being shot down then they normally would and thus increase your chance of actually hitting your target... The only real danger to the F-35 that I have found are the optical scanners on modern fighters, these can actually pick up and target a F35 from about 30 miles frontally and up to 70 miles from the rear. So the best tactic to use them would be to approach a target head on until missile range, then going to loiter speed and keeping your nose to the enemy until the threat is neutralized. If there are any targets left when you run out of missiles it is just a matter of turning 180 degrees and get out at full power. This works amazingly often...

W.