1939 Axis Naval strategy?

[ScottGridley]

Hi all!

I'm restarting the 1939 axis campaign again to fix my "errors" in strategy the first few times through! One point I'm stuck on: what to do with the navy, particularly the Italian fleet...? I like sending my uboats all the way to Halifax, but the German surface vessels seem to get ripped up when raiding convoy routes. Also, the Italian fleet gets decimated pretty quickly. Historically, they held out until June'42, particularly the Italian subs. In my hands, even the battleships get overwhelmed by British and French numbers. I find that naval warfare is playing out much more tactically in this game, less strategically. Thoughts?

Thanks!
sg

[AstroCat]

I am curious about the Italian fleet as well. Moved it out a bit after France fell but ran into some serious British ships, lost a few and then retreated back.

[ILCK]

You cant really use the Italian fleet until the French are gone or the numbers are just too bad as you point out. I move them to Sicilian, Libyan and southern Italian bases. The Italian medium bombers are useless as hell so I use them as recon. If i can get a UK ship in range to out and back i will hit it that way. The MPP cost to make the Italians fight the UK is high - naval warfare, ships upgrades and repairs are too much for poor little Italy and i pour all of that into making their ground forces not suck. You cant really do both.

For the sub, i leave the med and station it just outside the "to Red Sea" boxes to kill the inevitable conga line of UK ships heading to Egypt.

[Hartmann]

The Regia Marina needs to stay in the Adriatic until the fall of France. It also needs to be navally upgraded to prevail. I know that Italian MPPs are sparse, but this has to be done IMO.

[freeboy]

run and hide?
one thing I do is use subs as a silent picket... certainly easy in MED.. one gripe about map, could for "playability" make map in med slightly bigger....

[Jim D Burns]

As mentioned it's a trade off. If you improve your fleet, your land army will suck and eventually will only be good for partisan duty. If you focus on land your fleet will suck.

I always go for the land army and keep my ships in port, by 1943 you can have tech 2 infantry weapons, the infantry combat tech and 1 level of anti air. This will make your infantry units (I ignore armor tech) survivable until the increasing allied armor tech eventually allows them to begin to make headway against Italian units again. I do as much advanced air tech as I can afford if I have extra cash, but I don't waste money on increasing air ranges.

I also work on the tech that increases income. By mid 43 you will be making almost 200 per turn and you can then start to think about perhaps doing naval weapons tech to upgrade your fleet by 45 and perhaps cause some damage with it then. But it will be heavily dependent on how much you are spending on needed land repairs each turn.

I like to use Italy to take out Greece solo with the help of the 2 German para units and then I go turtle mode with Italy. That way I can keep helping in Africa with the few units there and still have money left to do the tech I need to get done. So the Russia expedition gets created but I bring it back to Italy right away so as not to require repairs.

I do send all my Italian garrisons to Russia for partisan duty, so Italy does help in that regard.

Jim

[ILCK]

One big issue withnrisking the Italian navy is if it gets sunk the national morale takes a big hit and any big NM loss could cause them to surrender.

[ScottGridley]

Awesome tips guys. Great discussion. Thanks!
sg

[marion61]

When the Italian's join the war, I usually take them all to Sicily and start bombarding Malta by sea and air, and preparing to assault the island. Getting Malta out of action helps North Africa with supply problems. Plus keep the Brits busy so they can't concentrate their fleet, so start as many fires in the Atlantic as possible.

[petrosian]

With the Italians, I keep the ships in port unless a allied ship reveals itself. Keep the BB up and use the small ships for recon when transporting troops. Germans same thing with ships. Upgrade subs and send them back to port when supply gets to 5. I have been up around 8 subs out and am getting 50 - 70 pps sunk a turn.

[rsclinton1]

Like the world's greatest boxer said "Float Like A Butterfly and Sting Like A Bee". Always rebuild. Never let one sink. Never end a turn in "contact" with an enemy if at all possible. Upgrade your ships. Research subs early and stay ahead! Finish his off, do not let them get away. Keep up the pressure. The Royal Navy is awesome, but it cannot be everywhere at the same time.

Get the Spanish to join and take Gibraltar... And pray.

Or, you can hide.

I was able to raid the holy hell out of the British in the Atlantic from day one and stir them up in the Med with the Italians...but every battle with the Royal Navy was bitch. They kept my Italians broke until '42 rebuilding. Very costly...but more so to the British and if you beat them at sea you beat them. Of course Franco joining and taking Gibraltar sealed the deal in '41 in my game. [8D]

Scott

[rsclinton1]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

When the Italian's join the war, I usually take them all to Sicily and start bombarding Malta by sea and air, and preparing to assault the island. Getting Malta out of action helps North Africa with supply problems. Plus keep the Brits busy so they can't concentrate their fleet, so start as many fires in the Atlantic as possible.

Man, I don't know. I gave up on Malta. No air drop on the island is a killer IMHO. Heck, I had all the Mediterranean, England, N. Ireland, Persia and was hitting Russia from two ways...but not Malta. Not worth the effort.

It costs me BB points to shell, CAs are even worse. Air power wears itself out as he rebuilds the AA.

Scott

[Hartmann]

ORIGINAL: Petrosian

With the Italians, I keep the ships in port unless a allied ship reveals itself. Keep the BB up and use the small ships for recon when transporting troops. Germans same thing with ships. Upgrade subs and send them back to port when supply gets to 5. I have been up around 8 subs out and am getting 50 - 70 pps sunk a turn.

I do the same. It will not work in MP, though - you can move the French navy into the Adriatic Sea where the Italian navy is hiding, and have the Royal Navy that's stationed in the Med follow somewhat behind. Then sacrifice the French navy. This will weaken the Regia Marina to a point where you can mop up with the Royal Navy. At the moment there's nothing an Axis player could do against that strategy.