First turn moves

strawb · Post by **strawb** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 4:18 pm

Hello

To start - great work Jeremy on 3.2 - nice to see China back amoungst many many other good moves.

Question: if I want to play Japan, against either AI or human, and I DON'T wnat to do a historical first move, but I do want to catch Pearl Harbour flat footed, what do I do?

So far the best I've got is to (I think) set both sides on Human, say no to Historic first turn, do japanese orders, then US orders (Yes I do send away the US CVs, by setting them off on their historic aircraft deliver task forces , or by sending them to 'stand -off' San Francico) and then setting US to computer - but still the Strike Force tends to find Pearl empty. Suggestions?

Jeremy Pritchard · Post by **Jeremy Pritchard** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 7:12 pm

The thing is, you can't to a Pearl Harbour strike. It took Japan 2 weeks to get their CTF from Japan to Pearl Harbour. Since turns run one week, it will take 2 turns to get there. Since war is already decalred, the USN would be dispersed to operational bases vs. sitting around in Pearl Harbour.

The best possible result would be a powerful wartime raid on the USN port, catching whatever was left there as well as any LBA.

Playing a Historic 1st turn allows for pre-war strategy to be used (as the turn starts on December 7, 1941, with all ships/men/aircraft in historic wartime spots). However, using a non-historic 1st turn, you start the war on December 7, 1941 WITHOUT any pre-war immediate plans (i.e., war is declared then the troops move).

If you want a Pearl Harbour raid without the historic 1st turn, just try the "Tora, Tora Tora" scenario without historic 1st turn.

strawb · Post by **strawb** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:08 pm

er yes think I understand that but...

1. On 3.1 I have managed a turn one raid on Pearl (or was I hallucinating?) by running the strike force with only the five fastest carriers, couple of quickie CA and 6 DD - less A/C but at least you catch 'em in port. I must try this again in 3.2...

2. I have (using Rising Sun Allied AI scenario in 3.2) - the four 34 knot CVs get to Pearl in one go. Results..

i. Move option stand off THREE to reduce travel distance, target port, Commander Discretion to increase chance of hitting TFs as well. In three repeats, the US always left four BBs in port with few CLs and several DDs. Besides sinking few DD and sinking/damaging CLs, I cripple the BBs (50-90% damage) BUT no sinking - probably because at range three no IJN plane is carrying torpedoes. The IJN CVs and the many USN TFS ignore each other (including single or double USN CV TFs). (The USN is now all hiding in Maui port - maybe I should set that as destination for really good strike...)

ii. All as above except stand off range set to TWO. Same targets in port BUT now B5Ns load torpedoes and I sink 2-4 BB, and 3-8 DD and cripple many others. Other TFs ignored.

iii. Setting order to 'remain on station' makes no difference, while setting target to TF means the strike only hits the airfield.

iv. I then tried setting destination to Maui to see if I could give IJN chance of killing more BBs as Maui is where USN runs to hide in scenario i. above. Interesting.... IJN still attack the same 4 BB etc in Pearl and only the airbase on Maui. When I save the turn and take a look at the US; all those ships are back in Pearl!

Do I sense some hardwiring of a Pearl attack in first turn? And some AI evasion? Anyway at least I think I've proved you can have a reasonable turn one Pearl strike AND have flexibility to control the first moves elsewhere vs the AI. let us not dwell on what might happen in Turn 2 if 2/3 USN CVs react to a 4xCV IJN TF at the end of its reach, two hexes from Pearl.... I think you might get 5 IJN CVs within 2 hex with a following wind to lesson the risks.

3. On an email game you could do this by house rule? US player switches all HQ to Human and agree to move nothing except CVs out of Pearl until Pearl attacked. You could allow US player to move limited number of planes/land units if feeling generous as he has 'extra week' to prepare for, what at that time, he thinks is potential war.

One last thing; Tora Tora Tora scenario (other campaigns C option) . Seems to be missing a few things - like Hiryu and Soryu! Makes first strike tricky...

Weathersfield · Post by **Weathersfield** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 7:02 am

One way to give you a full strike on PH with a non-historical first turn is to base all of the ships of TF1 in Uruppo( in Kuril Islands. This is where they started from anyway.

The range is much less than from Tokyo.