Where would Japan attack this Chinese setup?

[Majorball68]

Just curious as to what others think about this Chinese setup and where the Japs can exploit it. Note the Japs did not draw any artillery units in their strting setup only AT and AA. Not use of quick to build militia in most likely attack areas for quick rebuild. 2D CRT is being used, HQ support etc

[brian brian]

If I faced this I would do a few things. I would deploy around Chang-Sha to pin the Chinese AA unit there permanently. That is a valuable unit for the Chinese to use defending Chungking from strategic bombing and as the Japanese I would be glad to see it anywhere away from Chunking.

Changsha sits right on the weather line so if the weather is bad in the North Temperate, attacks can be made in the North Monsoon instead, some impulses. This area is the best place for the Japanese to deploy in strength.

Threatening Changsha could also threaten the base for the Chinese FTR2, if it were to actually fly - another unit the Japanese want to see at the front and not defending Chungking. This would in turn compel the Chinese to give up their defense of the rail north from Canton, an area the Japanese want quite a bit.

I would also try a deployment around the isolated 3-1 GARR defending the approach to Tungkwan, with a Ground Strike, or two, on Mao. A success on that and the ChiComms have to scramble to protect their HQ and their whole defense line unhinges. If that small gambit didn't work then the first turn is the best time for Japan to clear Chengchow, using the Manchurian forces later in the turn perhaps. Also the Canton MIL is not replaceable for China, so seeing it in the front lines would lead me to making sure it could never get out of Chengchow. In general I defend Chengchow strongly with the Nationalists to give the Communists time to build up more forces. Clearing it early for the Japanese seems a dull accomplishment for the first turn, but it is necessary if they want to beat Mao in the summer of 1940.

The appearance of the Kunming MIL in Chengchow also opens up another front for Japan, if they wish to deploy their strategic reserve - their Marines. I usually leave them in Korea to garrison the place and to be ready for war with Russia if necessary. But with this Chinese set-up with only one unit around Nanning, the Imperial Guard could go in to Pakhoi with some infantry divisions and possibly a transfer of the CAV via sea from Manchuria and the Chinese could soon be very embarrassed in their industrial heartland, especially with their own CAV dispersed so far forward and susceptible to ZoC locks. But sending the Marines inland is a serious step for the Japanese to take.

But overall I would simply start up campaigns in the Chengchow and Changsha area simultaneously and force the Chinese to react. It is a clever Chinese defense for the first impulse, but not for the long-term.

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

If I faced this I would do a few things. I would deploy around Chang-Sha to pin the Chinese AA unit there permanently. That is a valuable unit for the Chinese to use defending Chungking from strategic bombing and as the Japanese I would be glad to see it anywhere away from Chunking.

Changsha sits right on the weather line so if the weather is bad in the North Temperate, attacks can be made in the North Monsoon instead, some impulses. This area is the best place for the Japanese to deploy in strength.

Threatening Changsha could also threaten the base for the Chinese FTR2, if it were to actually fly - another unit the Japanese want to see at the front and not defending Chungking. This would in turn compel the Chinese to give up their defense of the rail north from Canton, an area the Japanese want quite a bit.

I would also try a deployment around the isolated 3-1 GARR defending the approach to Tungkwan, with a Ground Strike, or two, on Mao. A success on that and the ChiComms have to scramble to protect their HQ and their whole defense line unhinges. If that small gambit didn't work then the first turn is the best time for Japan to clear Chengchow, using the Manchurian forces later in the turn perhaps. Also the Canton MIL is not replaceable for China, so seeing it in the front lines would lead me to making sure it could never get out of Chengchow. In general I defend Chengchow strongly with the Nationalists to give the Communists time to build up more forces. Clearing it early for the Japanese seems a dull accomplishment for the first turn, but it is necessary if they want to beat Mao in the summer of 1940.

The appearance of the Kunming MIL in Chengchow also opens up another front for Japan, if they wish to deploy their strategic reserve - their Marines. I usually leave them in Korea to garrison the place and to be ready for war with Russia if necessary. But with this Chinese set-up with only one unit around Nanning, the Imperial Guard could go in to Pakhoi with some infantry divisions and possibly a transfer of the CAV via sea from Manchuria and the Chinese could soon be very embarrassed in their industrial heartland, especially with their own CAV dispersed so far forward and susceptible to ZoC locks. But sending the Marines inland is a serious step for the Japanese to take.

But overall I would simply start up campaigns in the Chengchow and Changsha area simultaneously and force the Chinese to react. It is a clever Chinese defense for the first impulse, but not for the long-term.

The setup is only a first turn setup to make it tough for the Japs considering they most likely will take a combined move to get more troops into China.

Good Observation about the Canton Militia, I missed that one plus the other 2 Militia that cant be repalced.

There is a weakness in the south as Pakhoi can be taken by an easy invasion and there isn't a lot that can roll over there quickly.

I was unsure on how to put pressure on Changsha and Chengchow at the same time. It was my intention to hit Chengchow across the river first turn.

The ground strike on Mao HQ seems a high risk move in that it uses an aircraft with very little chance for success at the expense of using it somewhere else.

Once the Japs deploy it allows the Chinese to re position some units to cover any weak spots.

[warspite1]

No comment on you Chinese set-up Majorball68, but just to say, I love the avatar [&o]

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

No comment on you Chinese set-up Majorball68, but just to say, I love the avatar [&o]

[:D] Cant remember who set that up for me it was someone important on here a couple years ago

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

ORIGINAL: warspite1

No comment on you Chinese set-up Majorball68, but just to say, I love the avatar [&o]

[:D] Cant remember who set that up for me it was someone important on here a couple years ago

warspite1

That would be Froonp. Top man.

[Centuur]

The problem with this setup is that the Chinese have to many hexes where there is only a single unit in a hex. This means that you give the Japanese the option of killing of some of those units in the first impulse of the war, when the weather is fine.

I would be very tempted to try and see if I can kill 2 Chinese units in the first impulse by the Japanese in the Chengchow area, taking a land action. The CAV near Chengchow and the MIL near Tchang. After that, one can attack Chengchow from the south...

[brian brian]

Japan's air units are weak of course, so I never feel like one of their air missions (any random Ground Strike) is wasted in that you won't miss it elsewhere. But when one works, it can be hard for the Chinese to deal with as that unit now can't retreat as Japan brings up stacks adjacent to it. The "Japanese Stuka" (D3 Val w/ 3 factors) is a key unit for them. Once Yamamoto is ashore they can take an occasional air impulse to maximize the poor factors of their bombers, and bomb Chinese factories repeatedly as well.

I wouldn't defend Pakhoi (or any coastal hex), but I would defend the Nanning area with two units. Japan has many units faster than the slow Chinese units, and China has few railroads. If the Japanese can get behind the Chinese, the Chinese will have serious problems. China can sometimes need to launch a suicide attack with a MIL unit just to respond to a Japanese raiding unit via rebuilding it. Some of China's best units are the 2 CAV armies, as they have the best chance to respond to Japanese directions on their interior lines, after China has to set up first. Seeing their CAV and certain MIL in the front lines, I would focus on those as Japan which would seem innocuous at first...

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The problem with this setup is that the Chinese have to many hexes where there is only a single unit in a hex. This means that you give the Japanese the option of killing of some of those units in the first impulse of the war, when the weather is fine.

I would be very tempted to try and see if I can kill 2 Chinese units in the first impulse by the Japanese in the Chengchow area, taking a land action. The CAV near Chengchow and the MIL near Tchang. After that, one can attack Chengchow from the south...

You could get enough odds to make those attacks and not get flipped?

[Orm]

Interesting setup. Thank you for sharing. [:)]

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The problem with this setup is that the Chinese have to many hexes where there is only a single unit in a hex. This means that you give the Japanese the option of killing of some of those units in the first impulse of the war, when the weather is fine.

I would be very tempted to try and see if I can kill 2 Chinese units in the first impulse by the Japanese in the Chengchow area, taking a land action. The CAV near Chengchow and the MIL near Tchang. After that, one can attack Chengchow from the south...

You could get enough odds to make those attacks and not get flipped?

I'll put the two GAR on Hainan and in Canton. I'll put the Shanghai Warlord in Nanchang. The Peking Warlord goes adjacent to Chengchow. Kaifeng gets an INF and all others set up into the Wuhan - Flooded area region.

I think I can get a +10 against the 3-3 MIL and a +8 against the CAV in the MTN's (with all Japanese air added and HQ support thrown in too). From Manchuria I rail two units southwards to prevent a Chicomm intervention towards the west.

I think I will end up with about half of the Japanese units flipped. And it's S/O, so the weather conditions for the next impulse are likely to be such, that the Japanese cannot attack any further due to miserable odds.

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The problem with this setup is that the Chinese have to many hexes where there is only a single unit in a hex. This means that you give the Japanese the option of killing of some of those units in the first impulse of the war, when the weather is fine.

I would be very tempted to try and see if I can kill 2 Chinese units in the first impulse by the Japanese in the Chengchow area, taking a land action. The CAV near Chengchow and the MIL near Tchang. After that, one can attack Chengchow from the south...

You could get enough odds to make those attacks and not get flipped?

I'll put the two GAR on Hainan and in Canton. I'll put the Shanghai Warlord in Nanchang. The Peking Warlord goes adjacent to Chengchow. Kaifeng gets an INF and all others set up into the Wuhan - Flooded area region.

I think I can get a +10 against the 3-3 MIL and a +8 against the CAV in the MTN's (with all Japanese air added and HQ support thrown in too). From Manchuria I rail two units southwards to prevent a Chicomm intervention towards the west.

I think I will end up with about half of the Japanese units flipped. And it's S/O, so the weather conditions for the next impulse are likely to be such, that the Japanese cannot attack any further due to miserable odds.

Point taken [;)]

Will make a few modifications. Loss of those 2 units would not be good.

[quiritus]

it depend of the range of cv planes japanes player, there are 5 in force pool with range 4 ...but the 2-4 cav south of changsha can be put out of supply: 3 mouvement point unit from canton or swatow and four mouvement from nanchang.

combined with zoc on changsha the HQ is in danger for the fpllowing impulses