CAP with multiple CV's

[jamesjohns]

Question for the group, if you have a CV task force with say 3 or 4 CV's, do you have just one CV do all the CAP or is it better to split the CAP between all the squadrons on all the CV's?

Thanks for any advice, always good to get the insight of other players.

[Lowpe]

What happens to your CAP when your CAP CV eats a sub launched torpedo or night strike or a mine and drops out of the task force? Uh-oh!

[Bullwinkle58]

I have been schooled by Lokasenna, a far better player than myself, to either go 100% CAP or 0% CAP on each fighter squadron. The reason is the interface doesn't have a CAP button. It has an Escort button, and CAP is a secondary consequence of that. So if you split you have to set the range spinner to the strike range, and that's where your CAP will CAP out to as well. You want the vast majority of your CAP overhead at range zero, and a bit out 1 or 2 hexes, then multiple altitudes as well to allow for TBs and DBs. Obviously you can't do that with one CV handling CAP. If you have four CVs, you need at least half your fighters on dedicated CAP. If you expect to meet the full KB, just don't go. If you have 10 CVs it's a lot easier. Also, later-war, I pull some of the TBs off the CVs and put a second fighter unit on several CVs, usually Corsairs.

The other trick I've been taught is to let CVEs do the CAP job for the most part. Make a second Air TF, load it with 10-15 CVEs, and put them on 100% CAP at a Follow distance of 0 to the main CV Air TF. You lose speed, but you don't care. It's the 800-pound gorilla situation if you have 10-15 Essexes and 15 CVEs, plus fast BBs and Fletchers. Of course, that's a 1944-45 situation for the most part.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I have been schooled by Lokasenna, a far better player than myself, to either go 100% CAP or 0% CAP on each fighter squadron. The reason is the interface doesn't have a CAP button. It has an Escort button, and CAP is a secondary consequence of that. So if you split you have to set the range spinner to the strike range, and that's where your CAP will CAP out to as well. You want the vast majority of your CAP overhead at range zero, and a bit out 1 or 2 hexes, then multiple altitudes as well to allow for TBs and DBs. Obviously you can't do that with one CV handling CAP. If you have four CVs, you need at least half your fighters on dedicated CAP. If you expect to meet the full KB, just don't go. If you have 10 CVs it's a lot easier. Also, later-war, I pull some of the TBs off the CVs and put a second fighter unit on several CVs, usually Corsairs.

The other trick I've been taught is to let CVEs do the CAP job for the most part. Make a second Air TF, load it with 10-15 CVEs, and put them on 100% CAP at a Follow distance of 0 to the main CV Air TF. You lose speed, but you don't care. It's the 800-pound gorilla situation if you have 10-15 Essexes and 15 CVEs, plus fast BBs and Fletchers. Of course, that's a 1944-45 situation for the most part.

I'm also a convert to the "all or nothing" school of thought regarding carrier CAP.

I can second the effectiveness of this approach. Granted, you do need a critical mass of carriers to an extent, but both sides have flat top's with limited torpedos/ordinance/capacity that are ideal for dedicated CAP carriers.

There's the scope to do it with the IJN as well, in the late war. Convert the TB squadron to the Grace and pull the dive bombers off and replace them with fighters.

[crsutton]

I split my CAP-usually, but will use 100 percent cap at times with other units doing other jobs such as sweeps or LRCAP. It just depends. However, for most situations. I set my CAP on all my fighters to a certain percentage and go with that. If there is a heavy carrier slug fest and half of your flight decks are closed, I don't want to risk that I will have no CAP if a second strike is coming.

[Lokasenna]

The important part is that you don't give any squadron multiple missions. It's either flying CAP or flying escort, not both.

[Rusty1961]

But what about Fatigue? If I fly one unit at 100% CAP won't they be combat ineffective in 3 or 4 days?

Or when you say you fly a unit at 100% CAP do you really mean 70% CAP and 30% Rest?

Just curious.

[Itdepends]

It means if tasked for escort set it at 0% CAP with the range set to match your strike aircraft OR set to whatever level of CAP you want at short range (for me generally 0 or 1 hex)

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

But what about Fatigue? If I fly one unit at 100% CAP won't they be combat ineffective in 3 or 4 days?

Or when you say you fly a unit at 100% CAP do you really mean 70% CAP and 30% Rest?

Just curious.

I think the others have said 100% CAP as in that unit is doing nothing but CAP, but the percentage might be lower like 50 or 70 or 80.

I vary mine between 50 and 100 depending on a mix of factors: current fatigue levels, anticipated threat, altitude of the group (higher alt = lower percentage unless I don't care about fatigue this turn), etc. Most often I am around 70-80 for lower or middle altitudes, and 50-60 for higher or top altitudes. I will go to 90 or 100 if there's going to be a hurricane that turn.

[Rusty1961]

Thank you for the elaboration.

[MakeeLearn]

Most of the time, complete units for carrier missions. Got to protect the nest so best fighter skill unit(s) for cap. Flying escort can be tricky, so the best escort unit(s) for that.
And as others have said, can be adjusted depending on what else is going on.

[woods]

100% Cap. Sure learn something new after playing this game for years.[&o]

[Barb]

So far I am still in favor of all squadrons having 30-70% CAP/Escort settings for CV/CVLs (based on threat).

In case I have a CVEs along, I usually limit their range to keep their CAP in place.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Barb

So far I am still in favor of all squadrons having 30-70% CAP/Escort settings for CV/CVLs (based on threat).

In case I have a CVEs along, I usually limit their range to keep their CAP in place.

Agree, Allied ships have so much radar by 1944 that they are going to put up extra planes anyways.

[Cavalry Corp]

So the more radars the more planes may scramble?? In excess of the amount actually put to Cap and not resting??

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I have been schooled by Lokasenna, a far better player than myself, to either go 100% CAP or 0% CAP on each fighter squadron.

The other trick I've been taught is to let CVEs do the CAP job for the most part. Make a second Air TF...

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm also a convert...

Indeed learn something new after months of playing....[8D]

Thank you gentlemen... very very interesting perspective.

Two follow up questions

1) Do you let / force the CVE's to upgrade to Hellcats?

In my first game (PDU Off) many CVE squadrons were restricted to F4Fs or FM1's .. I don't think the CVEs can handle Corsairs.

2) ADVICE : What orders for you alpha stike.. 100% escort ?

Or do you try also to Sweep ? Do you sweep the first day - and rest the bombers ?

I have always had difficulty trying to find the right combo of sweep / then strike from Carrier based task forces..where as from land based it seems so easy...

[Lokasenna]

You don't actually set an escort percentage. You just set the squadron to the Escort mission. Any percentages you assign after that subtract from the potential that can fly on escort. Usually, the entire squadron will fly the escort mission, but not always.

I rarely sweep with CVs.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: cavalry

So the more radars the more planes may scramble?? In excess of the amount actually put to Cap and not resting??

Sort of? Does anyone know how scrambling actually works?

From my observation, it seems to be that if you have a unit of 100 planes set to 30% CAP and 0% rest (so 70% are available to scramble), then here is what happens:

For the first raid, only 1/3 of those set to CAP are in the air. The other 2/3 are on standby. So only 10 planes will begin in the air, but 20 will be on standby and will be launched to meet the raid.

Then, if the raid is of sufficient size (probably compared to CAP size), the other 70 planes can scramble as well. I think this is what you are asking.


For my part, I prefer to have more planes up earlier as at range 0 they do not suffer overmuch from fatigue. I can run 80% CAP at range 0 for days and days at CV strike altitudes (10-20K) and not have fatigue rise about 10 or 12, usually staying under 10. This was argued in a thread some months back and I laid out my reasoning there. It may have been in obvert's LOW ALTITUDE CAP vs. SWEEPS test thread. But basically the summary is this:

(1) Higher percentage on CAP initially -> (2) more planes in the air initially and more on standby instead of scrambling -> (3) better able to intercept incoming raid -> (4) less of your stuff gets hit/damaged -> (5) retaining ability to fly more CAP in PM phase for potential PM strikes

Typically the argument I see tossed against having a higher CAP percentage set is that if you only have 50% up, only 50% can be killed/damaged by the initial strikes (or sweeps, but since we're talking about CV defense here sweeps are irrelevant except when CVEs are CAPping a beachhead). Point #4 above refutes this. I'd rather completely obliterate strikes as they come in than have fighters sitting in my hangars or scrambling to get into the air such that they may not intercept bombers in time.

[Lowpe]

You guys are talking about having a fair bit of carriers. And when you do, then I guess having all or nothing works, since the loss of anyone carrier is small.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You don't actually set an escort percentage. You just set the squadron to the Escort mission. Any percentages you assign after that subtract from the potential that can fly on escort. Usually, the entire squadron will fly the escort mission, but not always.

I rarely sweep with CVs.

Oops yes... [8|] not thinking the question through...

Rarely sweep with CVs ....hmmmm ... no wonder I struggle with it... late war..... hmmmmmmm... more to ponder.

I was very much thinking this is the mechanism; vis a vis the sweeps of 5th Fleet/3rd Fleet both in the prelude and during the Leyte Gulf action.... sweep sweep and then pound the airfields... but I thought perhaps I was being too nervous with my CVs till this thread started to make me think in other ways....

Thanks gents