Mythbuster ( HQ Bombing agreements )

[Hermann]

OZK lets put an end to this insanity once and for all. once upon a time HQ Bombing was off kilter and took out a high proportion of commanding officers. The forums exploded in outrage and players started making gentlemans agreements to stop bombing HQ's but this is Matrix - the developers noticed and fixed it. Nowadays the only ones benefitting from this are panzerball players. look at a german panzerkorps HQ you'll see its packed top to bottom with Corps assets. Then check your combat results and see the effect those assets have on combat. So while youre getting encircled and smashed by tank blobs you're supposed to be a good sport and refrain from bombing the units that are hitting you hardest. what is offered in return ? a gentlemans agreement not to concentrate overwhelming force and tear you to shreds ? think not. Time to throw off the yoke and strike back my Russian friends. add a pvo aa regiment to your own HQ's and blast the german HQ's to shreds on sight make em keep em farther back and defend them if they want to keep em unharmed stop taking a pounding to do the right thing and hammer those HQ's The myth about hq bombing hurting both players equally is busted. they want a free ride and 2 million prisoners make enm pay through their HQ's

[Stelteck]

Yes, revolution for the soviet player !!! Follow this new people's hero against the german conspiracy !!!!

[&o]

[56ajax]

Against an experienced German opponent, the game is really grim and boring for the first 100 odd turns. Throw the Soviets a few crumbs please. Anyway I dont think bombing HQs would make much difference.

[Stelteck]

Relative to balance, I always wonder why the +1 soviet attack bonus is most of the time desactivated in the game.

This bonus was in the original game before a patch allow to desactivate it, and was necessary to better reflect the soviet counter attack ability early war (and soviet did attacked a lot !!). It was not an error if the bonus was here. (The bonus is also no more active after first blizzard, when soviet army begin to have dedicated offensive units).

I'am not sûre a game can be balance without it.

[charlie0311]

I'm liking the prose.

Hard Luck, see, see, oh see what you've done. Yet another crop of semi newbies crying over the rules. Sorry newbs, I'll get to you later.

John, Sov may launch devastating winter "O" turn 25. Mild blizzard is plenty. Winter 42/43 Sov should be able to seize the strategic initiative, another offensive, different from first winter. Summer '43 should be interesting, clever axis player can really, really hurt you.

What you guys can do is figure out this Pzball nonsense for yourselves. Rules, as is are just fine.

Or you can PM me and I will coach. If you want the coach option first thing is to find a gaming partner who will take the other side and play for the purpose of learning. So much easier this way, way more fun. Probably take months, you heard me right.

Before you start in on me go to utube and find song "When the levee breaks", the harmonica version. Zeparella, a girl group, does a great job. Then when you can weep and moan, go after me full force.

Ok, a bit of failed sarcasm, but I'm trying to be witty. You see our pal Mr Sillyflower has killed my expensive lawyers and has a big (huge) judgement on me, only thing I can do now is make a fool of myself in the forums or he takes everything. Maybe he will relent and I can at least eat beans for the rest of my days. hehehehe

[Hermann]

I smell a panzerballer... don't go to the dark side - refuse to learn his silly strategy ! Find him and bomb his HQ's! the force is with us !~

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Hermann

OZK lets put an end to this insanity once and for all. once upon a time HQ Bombing was off kilter and took out a high proportion of commanding officers. The forums exploded in outrage and players started making gentlemans agreements to stop bombing HQ's but this is Matrix - the developers noticed and fixed it. Nowadays the only ones benefitting from this are panzerball players. look at a german panzerkorps HQ you'll see its packed top to bottom with Corps assets. Then check your combat results and see the effect those assets have on combat. So while youre getting encircled and smashed by tank blobs you're supposed to be a good sport and refrain from bombing the units that are hitting you hardest. what is offered in return ? a gentlemans agreement not to concentrate overwhelming force and tear you to shreds ? think not. Time to throw off the yoke and strike back my Russian friends. add a pvo aa regiment to your own HQ's and blast the german HQ's to shreds on sight make em keep em farther back and defend them if they want to keep em unharmed stop taking a pounding to do the right thing and hammer those HQ's The myth about hq bombing hurting both players equally is busted. they want a free ride and 2 million prisoners make enm pay through their HQ's

This has been fixed in recent patches anyway. But just consider this. What the Soviets do is normally done with medicore results with their units. On the otherhand the Germans do a great deal better. So Germans pounding Soviet HQ's sounds kinda fun ;-P

[Hermann]

don't read this its boobytrapped

[Hermann]

this one too I hate mornings

[Hermann]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Hermann

OZK lets put an end to this insanity once and for all. once upon a time HQ Bombing was off kilter and took out a high proportion of commanding officers. The forums exploded in outrage and players started making gentlemans agreements to stop bombing HQ's but this is Matrix - the developers noticed and fixed it. Nowadays the only ones benefitting from this are panzerball players. look at a german panzerkorps HQ you'll see its packed top to bottom with Corps assets. Then check your combat results and see the effect those assets have on combat. So while youre getting encircled and smashed by tank blobs you're supposed to be a good sport and refrain from bombing the units that are hitting you hardest. what is offered in return ? a gentlemans agreement not to concentrate overwhelming force and tear you to shreds ? think not. Time to throw off the yoke and strike back my Russian friends. add a pvo aa regiment to your own HQ's and blast the german HQ's to shreds on sight make em keep em farther back and defend them if they want to keep em unharmed stop taking a pounding to do the right thing and hammer those HQ's The myth about hq bombing hurting both players equally is busted. they want a free ride and 2 million prisoners make enm pay through their HQ's

This has been fixed in recent patches anyway. But just consider this. What the Soviets do is normally done with medicore results with their units. On the otherhand the Germans do a great deal better. So Germans pounding Soviet HQ's sounds kinda fun ;-P

Bring it ! Von Curtis, Dinglr, Hortlund and the other flyboys will eat you alive =) our HQ's are empty in 1941 bomb em to your hearts content... and as far as 1942/43 please do anything to drag your guns off ground support and into my 90mm bullet fiesta. FIND THE HQ's ! bomb them into the stone age ! we never signed the Geneva accords !

[Hermann]

you know what the Russians did to German HQ's during the war ? First they bombed the kraut of them and forced em to set up in the forests, then they used incendiary bombs upwind and set the forest on fire... The noble Russian airmen are spinning in their graves watching brave Russian soldiers die over a gentlemans agreement some noob was tricked into signing. HQ's must burn - keel dem allz !

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Hermann

you know what the Russians did to German HQ's during the war ? First they bombed the kraut of them and forced em to set up in the forests, then they used incendiary bombs upwind and set the forest on fire... The noble Russian airmen are spinning in their graves watching brave Russian soldiers die over a gentlemans agreement some noob was tricked into signing. HQ's must burn - keel dem allz !

Since this has been fixed in the game with recent patches I believe the whole premise of this subject post is mute No myth to bust just people still pulling the special rules from prior AAR's as their rules. I don't see why not to allow it again to be honest.

[M60A3TTS]

It seems difficult to find a balance in killing off leaders, so they just opted to turn it off for the most part.

[Grognard1812]

As someone new to this forum I have read many of the recent posts in the AAR section and this section. As
this thread is about play balance I have noticed that on most of the AARs where the German player is tearing apart
the Soviet player most of the settings are the following - Non-random weather, reduced blizzard effect,
no Soviet combat bonus with house rules for paratroopers and naval landings. As most if not all of the settings
are to the German advantage I think it sets up for very ahistorical outcomes, where a good level German player
should be able to capture Leningrad and Moscow. I find the biggest advantage to the Germans in the games that
I have played is the Combat doctrine being changed from Soviet combat bonus Attack +1 to None. With this
it is extremely difficult to combat the panzer thrusts - sometimes a single regiment of Panzer troops can fend
off an attack by 3 or more Russian divisions which is totally unrealistic. Do you feel the Attack +1 should be
used more often for play balance?

[morvael]

In my opinion best settings for PvP play are:
- reduced blizzard
- random weather
- Soviet attack +1
- paratroopers and naval landings allowed

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

I'm liking the prose.

Hard Luck, see, see, oh see what you've done. Yet another crop of semi newbies crying over the rules. Sorry newbs, I'll get to you later.

John, Sov may launch devastating winter "O" turn 25. Mild blizzard is plenty. Winter 42/43 Sov should be able to seize the strategic initiative, another offensive, different from first winter. Summer '43 should be interesting, clever axis player can really, really hurt you.

What you guys can do is figure out this Pzball nonsense for yourselves. Rules, as is are just fine.

Or you can PM me and I will coach. If you want the coach option first thing is to find a gaming partner who will take the other side and play for the purpose of learning. So much easier this way, way more fun. Probably take months, you heard me right.

Before you start in on me go to utube and find song "When the levee breaks", the harmonica version. Zeparella, a girl group, does a great job. Then when you can weep and moan, go after me full force.

Ok, a bit of failed sarcasm, but I'm trying to be witty. You see our pal Mr Sillyflower has killed my expensive lawyers and has a big (huge) judgement on me, only thing I can do now is make a fool of myself in the forums or he takes everything. Maybe he will relent and I can at least eat beans for the rest of my days. hehehehe

Ok, I will bite on this. Come back at Xmas time in 1943. Yep for the Soviet the game is grim and boring. I think we are up to Turn 27 in my campaign game (and the way we are going it is going to take longer than the actual war). Without giving too much away I have a massive army and airforce which is gaining experience so slowly I wonder what they are doing. Mild blizzard, the AXIS army is in decline but their Panzer force is still growing. I am obtaining lots of one hex retreats but the losses can be up to 10 to 1 in favour of the AXIS. No breakthroughs (yet). By campaign season my opponent will have a massive Panzer army; historically the joke went 1st PZ had one tank, 2nd PZ 2 tanks, 3rd had 3 etc...but in the game 1st PZ has 100 tanks 2nd has 200 3rd has 300 etc...since the game started I have bombed ever PZ and Mot div I have located which has destroyed 1 tank, a captured T 34.

Anyway enough of that rant I am doing ok in the game historically but at times it is boring.

[Hermann]

im at turn 60 odd vs the evil von kurtis... held him back then tarted grabbing real estate at will. my army is in great shape and im ablee to roam around at will. apparently he read the forum post I had a panxer corps moving behind the frontline in well supplied territory... his 18000 strong airforce has had no impact till this turn but he blasted my hq for 1500 men and almost all the supply and pretty much immobilized it from the air.

[Icier]

Hey guys, stop getting your knickers in a knot over this. The choice is yours @ the beginning of the game whether you want to play with HQ bombing or not.
Truth be told, I haven't never lost any Generals to bombing.
Really what we should be discussing is like that posting about Bombing Berlin @ the start of the game. Done properly it knocks out German tank production @ the start of the invasion.
Who has ever mention this in any of the posting, I have never see it.

[Stelteck]

True soviet generals already bombs HQ because, you know, sometimes units are not properly identified and could be bombed by mystake... 2 times sometimes just to confirm that it is truely an HQ.

[Hermann]

ORIGINAL: Ice

Hey guys, stop getting your knickers in a knot over this. The choice is yours @ the beginning of the game whether you want to play with HQ bombing or not.
Truth be told, I haven't never lost any Generals to bombing.
Really what we should be discussing is like that posting about Bombing Berlin @ the start of the game. Done properly it knocks out German tank production @ the start of the invasion.
Who has ever mention this in any of the posting, I have never see it.

if you do a detailed combat report and saw the effect of hq bombing on supply you would be shocked