Odd VH Behavior

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:42 pm

In a scenario I'm working on I wanted to setup 10 widely spaced VH's, give 5 to each side, and have them as "cannot be recaptured". My assumption was that they could be captured by the enemy the first time, then not retaken by the original side. Correct or...?

Anyway, when I tested the scenario the game "fast forwarded" through all 30 turns, never once stopping for input. (No, I did not have both sides set to computer...they were both set to human in fact.)

Going with the rule of thumb that says, "When something screws up go back to the last thing you changed." I went back and changed all the VH's to be "points per turn". Now the scenario started acting normal, but something else curious happened...you could not capture a VH. I parked a sniper on one for three turns and it never changed. I moved him off, then back on, still no change. I tried it with all 10 hexes, no changes. The VH's could not be captured at all. Hovering over the hexes confirms they are VH's, worth 20 points per turn. Any thoughts on this from anyone?

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:15 pm

My guess is, the scenario DAT file is corrupted. I have had this happen, I'll bet most people who have done design work with WAW also have.

Aside from starting over fresh, there isn't much you can do. Did you have any of those special VH's stacked? That might have made a difference, but I am way far away from being a scenario design expert.

Usually when the DAT file is screwed up you have two chances to get the scenario to work right: Slim and none.

Bing

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:24 pm

As Bing mentioned I'm curious also as to where the other 10 VH's are? If they are underneath the ones you changed to points per turn, they will still be uncaptured!! Easiest way is to use the next objective hex key to cycle through all of them, and double check.

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:30 pm

Originally posted by Bernie

I parked a sniper on one for three turns and it never changed. I moved him off, then back on, still no change.

Snipers cannot capture Victory hexes....

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:59 pm

Originally posted by Resisti
Snipers cannot capture Victory hexes....

That's the problem then... Okay, now I have to come up with a different idea...

Hmmm...snipers would have been perfect for what I'm doing. They move fast, are very lightly armed and only get two shots per turn max. Can anyone suggest another unit that fits the bill? I'd prefer a single man unit. I'll go in and edit units if need be, but would prefer something simple.

What I'm doing is making a fast play scenario based on the kids game "Capture the Flag" Ten VH's, 5 per side, 30 turns, medium map with good cover but plenty of open areas too. My plan was for the HQ units and ten snipers per side. Use the units how you see fit to defend your own VH's while capturing the enemy's. I suppose I could use scout teams, but they're a bit too strong for this. Also, I want the units fairly equal and only moderately hard to take out.

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:18 pm

The most similar unit I can think of is a 2-men scout unit.
You can edit it and make it one man only, it’s a one step work, easy to do.
Then, if you want to lower their firing rate, then you have to lower their experience.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:59 am

You can't just get rid of the surplus and excess VH's, not so far as I know. They will still be there, somewhere. You might be able to zero them out, maybe not, but I've never come across a scenario where the designer was able to simply ignore VH's, it will eventually cause trouble.

Bing

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:30 am

Originally posted by Bing
You can't just get rid of the surplus and excess VH's, not so far as I know. They will still be there, somewhere. You might be able to zero them out, maybe not, but I've never come across a scenario where the designer was able to simply ignore VH's, it will eventually cause trouble.

Bing

I'm not trying to do that at all. Did you read the description of the scenario I'm trying to create? If I need to edit anything to create it, it would be to reduce a scout team down to a single man.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:15 am

Originally posted by Bernie
I'm not trying to do that at all. Did you read the description of the scenario I'm trying to create? If I need to edit anything to create it, it would be to reduce a scout team down to a single man.

Bernie, you could also try it the other way around. Add one man to your sniper and then they should be able to take those VH's.
This way you don't have to fiddle with weapon and/or experience.

I don't know if this will work, but it could be worth testing...

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:38 am

Originally posted by Lars
Bernie, you could also try it the other way around. Add one man to your sniper and then they should be able to take those VH's.
This way you don't have to fiddle with weapon and/or experience.

I don't know if this will work, but it could be worth testing...

It's not the # of men, which makes the difference, but the unit's class: so, as far as you use a sniper class unit, it won't be able to get any VHs, even if you make it..100 men strong

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:52 am

Bernie, sorry, you're right I didn't read all the way through. I did learn something, though, about the sniper class not being able to capture a VH. Wonder if there are other classes same as sniper in this regard?

Bing

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:18 am

Originally posted by Bing
Bernie, sorry, you're right I didn't read all the way through. I did learn something, though, about the sniper class not being able to capture a VH. Wonder if there are other classes same as sniper in this regard?

Bing

S'ok...I've misread stuff quite a few times myself.

The "sniper class can't take a VH" was a new one on me also, and if not for this forum I'd have pondered the problem for weeks before I figured it out. I don't know what other classes can't take VH's (aside from obvious ones like aircraft) but it would be good information to have.

For now I've worked around the problem by using FO's, renamed and requipped as snipers, and reduced to single men units. I also upped their movement and fire control rates to the same as snipers. The only thing I can't seem able to do is get their rate of fire down. Snipers fire 1 or 2 times per turn, but FO's fire 5 or 6. I can, and have, change the fire control setting in the editor, but there's no edit for the range finder (not that it would affect ROF I suppose). Anyone have suggestions?

I'll post the scenario in a new thread after this.

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:01 pm

Originally posted by Bernie
S'ok...I've misread stuff quite a few times myself.

The only thing I can't seem able to do is get their rate of fire down. Snipers fire 1 or 2 times per turn, but FO's fire 5 or 6. I can, and have, change the fire control setting in the editor, but there's no edit for the range finder (not that it would affect ROF I suppose). Anyone have suggestions?

Bernie, I think you misread stuff once more

If you read again my second post above, you'll see that I told you how to modify the ROF (well, the only way I know of, let's say).
Make some simple tests, by assigning some units and exp. of let's say 120, and 60 to others, and see if the ROF it's the same...

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:06 pm

Originally posted by Resisti
Bernie, I think you misread stuff once more
If you read again my second post above, you'll see that I told you how to modify the ROF (well, the only way I know of, let's say).
Make some simple tests, by assigning some units and exp. of let's say 120, and 60 to others, and see if the ROF it's the same...

I have tweaked the EXP levels, and they do modify the ROF a bit. However, the basic ROF for an FO unit vs a sniper unit seems different, probably being coded into the class of the unit itself. For example, a sniper with an EXP of 85 and MORALE of 80 will fire 1 or 2 times during a turn, but an FO with the same settings will fire up to 6 times per turn.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:23 pm

So you got a sniper with a rapid fire weapon! Count your blessings.

After thinking about the issue for a time - I know, that's dangerous, I try not to think too often - I believe I appreciate why snipers are locked out of capturing VH's. They are cheap and easy to deploy behind enemy lines.

Parachuting small units behind the lines might also be easy. Has anyone ever done a Battle of Bulge Germans disguised as American MP's scenario? Might be fun as a change from regular combat. Or as part of an opening B of B scenario.

Bking

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:12 am

To "hide" the extra v-hexes, change their value to 0 and stack them off in a corner. They will not appear on the map.

You can also put a value of 1/2 of what is desired and stack 2 to get the total you are looking for but they should not be of mixed type or problems will likely occur.

Try changing the 2 man scout team to one man with FC set to 5 or 6 with elite quality numbers. The result will be quite similar to a sniper.

You can change rate of fire in Freds scenario editor.

Great fun to see a unique sort of scenario being created. Good luck with it.

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:42 pm

Originally posted by Redleg
To "hide" the extra v-hexes, change their value to 0 and stack them off in a corner. They will not appear on the map.

You can also put a value of 1/2 of what is desired and stack 2 to get the total you are looking for but they should not be of mixed type or problems will likely occur.

Try changing the 2 man scout team to one man with FC set to 5 or 6 with elite quality numbers. The result will be quite similar to a sniper.

You can change rate of fire in Freds scenario editor.

Great fun to see a unique sort of scenario being created. Good luck with it.

Thanks for the info, and the compliment, Redleg.

I've tried Fred's editor, but three attempts at running it resulted in three computer lockups, so I gave up on it. Very possible mine is corrupted, since I had a HD "go south" on me a few weeks ago. I'll have to look for another copy.

There's a test version of the scenario posted in this forum if anyone wants to try it out.

Odd VH Behavior

Odd VH Behavior

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