Vichy France issues

[Numdydar]

WWII strategic games would be so much easier to make if the Germans had just overrun all of France lol.

In RL, the US and British invade Vichy NA and Vichy France surrendered without much of a fight. So in the game the US declares war on Vichy and they start fighting. Plus the Allies are prevented from entering Vichy's NA territories.

The game has all the Vichy NA areas listed as separate countries so declaring war on Vichy France in the game just means the mainland France area.

So I declare war on Algeria and Tunisia thinking they would just surrender. But nooo. They fight too. Have to send units to capture every city.

Shouldn't Vichy NA be more like a liberation event and all the cities switch to Allied control unless Axis ground units are present?

Also because I declared war on mainland Vichy (again thinking all Vichy territories would be covered), the Germans proceeded to build Vichy units to fight for them. Really?

What am I missing here? Do I need to wait for a special event to have this work correctly? As something seems really strange with the way this works now.

[BillRunacre]

There is a US Decision Event that triggers morale losses among Vichy forces in Algeria when that is invaded.

One thing to bear in mind is that the campaign has to cater for all kinds of situations, e.g. for these territories being activated by one side or the other by diplomacy, or being attacked by a side that didn't historically attack them.

In terms of Vichy France building units, that isn't as unlikely as might be thought because there were prominent figures in Vichy France who would have been happier than one might like to have joined the Axis. This is all covered in Colin Smith's England's Last War Against France: Fighting Vichy 1940-1942, a book that I'd recommend for a different view of the war.

[Numdydar]

Does that event always trigger? As I was kind of expecting something along those lines. But if it is set to 100% it did not occur in my game.

[sPzAbt653]

Colin Smith's England's Last War Against France: Fighting Vichy 1940-1942,

I've got that on my list of books to get since the last time you mentioned it, thanks !

@Numdydar - Agree with you mostly, but without reading the above book my knowledge is limited but as I recall there were all sorts of intrigues with Vichy territories. Mainly, I think, each one had their own governments that could swing either way, and all of them disliked the British, so any British invasions of their territory would be met with full resistance, as in Syria. Morocco folded rather quickly because, of all things, their governor liked Patton. Algeria was a nightmare of negotiations for Eisenhower, and Tunisia was occupied quickly by the Germans.
I might suggest that it would seem reasonable that if only US troops invaded a Vichy territory, that territory would surrender or switch to Free France, but I don't know if that is possible to guarantee.

[Numdydar]

Here is how it went down in RL.

Operation Torch was the American and British invasion of French North Africa, Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, started on 8 November 1942, with landings in Morocco and Algeria. The long-term goal was to clear German and Italian forces from North Africa, enhance naval control of the Mediterranean, and prepare for an invasion of Italy in 1943. The Vichy forces initially resisted, killing 479 Allied forces and wounding 720. Vichy Admiral Darlan initiated cooperation with the Allies. The Allies recognized Darlan's self-nomination as High Commissioner of France (head of civil government) for North and West Africa. He ordered Vichy forces there to cease resisting and cooperate with the Allies, and they did so.

By 10 November, French opposition to the Torch landings had ceased, creating a military vacuum in Tunisia.

So two days of fighting (which should be zero days of fighting in the game) and Vichy forces in NA ceased to exist. So in game terms, all cities in Algeria and Tunisia should be switched to Allied unless German forces are present. Or at least Algeria should be that way.

You could even say that if a German unit is in the capitol city of those areas, then the cities do not switch until they are destroyed. This would at least force the Axis to keep a couple of Garrisons at least in the area.

So as long as the US declares war then something along these lines should happen. Maybe a script of some kind?

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Does that event always trigger? As I was kind of expecting something along those lines. But if it is set to 100% it did not occur in my game.

The Decision should always be presented to the USA providing the conditions are met:

DE 308 - USA: Order O.S.S. to Intrigue in Vichy Algeria?

Event fires: From the 1st July 1942 when the UK and USA are Allied and not
surrendered, Gibraltar is in Allied hands, and Algeria is neutral but pro-Axis.

Cost of accepting: 25 MPPs.

Yes: Should Algeria join the Axis, even if Declared war upon by the Allies, then a US
landing at any of Casablanca, Oran or Algiers will have a 50% chance of triggering
pro-Allied activity which will reduce by 25-40% the morale of Vichy Algerian units
within 2 hexes of each location. The effect of this will be to temporarily reduce the
combat effectiveness of Vichy Algerian units, and to render their defeat that much
easier.
Note that only US troops landing in Algeria can trigger this.
No: Nothing.

[Numdydar]

Ah ha. Well the event did not fire since the dirty Spaniards managed to take Gibraltar [:(]

Its good to know that something like this can happen in the game.

[guggy]

IMHO, something needs to be addressed : When France is liberated by the Allies, Vichy should cease to exist and France united. My 2cents.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Guggy,

There is a Decision event that will fire for the Allied player giving them the choice on having Vichy France reunite with France or not, DE 201. But to fire France needs to be liberated, Marseilles needs to be held by the Allies and essentially no Axis units remaining in nearby range of Paris and Marseilles.

Hubert