SPwaw OOB Feedback

[BryanMelvin]

Can anyone chime in on current version 7.1 OOBa and let me know if you have seen any Formation oddities as well as imput on Formations, Weapons, etc..

In the works are a new set of OOBs due for release soon from Matrix. Many of the issues and errors of 7.1 oobs have been corrected.

I would like to hear from anyone on 7.1 oobs so that I can recheck the new ones to see if I missed anything.

Nation OOBs that I need info on would be:

Italy
Poland - 1939
Japan

as well as any imput on other Nation's oobs

[BryanMelvin]

Gmenfan - can you make this a Sticking post?

[Gary Tatro]

Here is one that I would like to see changed to prevent abuse and make things more realistic.

Currently in Version 7.1 all Heavy Flak units of all nations can currently be picked up in a truck or prime mover, move, unload, and shot in the same turn. All that happens is that the heavy flack losses one shot for unloading.

This is pretty unrealistic since all ATG's and all Machine guns lose there main firing weapon shots as soon as they move. Why would anyone take a Marader or any of the Mobil ATG's. Just take some 88-Flak's with Prime movers. :p

Now I know that you can set up a house rule saying that playing a game where people abuse this magical fast set up ability are cheating and it is not allowed, but many players out there do not know about this. I have been playing the game for 2 years now and just discovered it much to my dismay, 2 platoons of T-34's dead. So if you could just take temptation out of the way then people would not be able to abuse it.

Thank you for your time and effort.

Gary Tatro

[BryanMelvin]

Originally posted by Gary Tatro
Here is one that I would like to see changed to prevent abuse and make things more realistic.

Currently in Version 7.1 all Heavy Flak units of all nations can currently be picked up in a truck or prime mover, move, unload, and shot in the same turn. All that happens is that the heavy flack losses one shot for unloading.

This is pretty unrealistic since all ATG's and all Machine guns lose there main firing weapon shots as soon as they move. Why would anyone take a Marader or any of the Mobil ATG's. Just take some 88-Flak's with Prime movers. :p

Now I know that you can set up a house rule saying that playing a game where people abuse this magical fast set up ability are cheating and it is not allowed, but many players out there do not know about this. I have been playing the game for 2 years now and just discovered it much to my dismay, 2 platoons of T-34's dead. So if you could just take temptation out of the way then people would not be able to abuse it.

Thank you for your time and effort.

Gary Tatro

Thanks Gary - I'll see what I can do about this! I never noticed this before

[Bing]

Yep, I just ran across this anomaly during play of the new RS. I'm trucking a Russian 76.2 AA gun all over the map and not sure I even lose one shot after unloading, because it looks like after a few turns of fighitng the per turn is two shots anyway, rather than three. Does seem odd, when a 30 cal MG can't fire after moving but a huge AA gun can. Maybe SPAA and and static mount got confused?

Bing

P.S. Anomlies and grits are great for breakfast.

[Voriax]

Originally posted by BryanMelvin
Thanks Gary - I'll see what I can do about this! I never noticed this before

Changing the unit class from 'heavy flak' to 'flak' will probably do the trick.

Voriax

[o4r]

Any unit formation created, if the production for that particular vehicle is lesss than 10 units, maybe they should not appear in the game at all.

Some unit Cezh which belong to German formation, can it place back to actual German formation.

The use of ammo truck like LGM or actually is called Sd Kfz 252, according to history there is about 413 was produced from June 1940 to 1941, first by Demag then by Deutshe. It is normally attached to Sturmartikkeries batteries. They acutally have a 7.92 mm MG34 inside the vehicle for self defence. It is actually installed with a Maybach HL42TRKM engine which give them the performance of 65 km/h on road slightly faster than SdK Kfz 250 which is about 60 km/h which is equiped with a Maybach HL42TUKRM engine. Their dimension are acutally actually about the same size as a Sdk Kfz 250 so it should be size 2 but not 3. Their armour rating is
Superstructure
Front 18/30 deg, side 8/30 deg, Rear 8/55 deg, top/bottom 8/90 deg
Hull
Front 18/12 deg, Side 8/30 deg, Rear 8/45 deg Top/bottom 8/90 deg
Their production stop in Sept 1941 and was replaced with Sdk Kfz 250/6.

Sdk Fz 11/1 is are also one of those vehicle produce in mass and uses as a supply vehicle but was remove from the German formation as a supply vehicle.

The 12t-DB10 picture is attached and not the one shown in your picture which is required the outrigger. There were 10 produced in 1938 and 15 in 1940. There were in action in Poland and France and were indeed issue to the 9th Schwere Panzerkjagerabteilung. Can it be the common unit too. Since if 15cm Sig 33 on Pz II us used in the game which only 12 were produced, then 12t-DB10 should be in it too.

Thogh there was only 2 12.8 cm L/61 Pz SflV produced in whole war, one of it was still capture intact by Russian in 1943 with a 22 victory ring (22 victim). I just want to correct its armour. The hull armour is actually
Front 50/14(actually 13.5 but it is ok), Side is 30/0 deg and read is 30/45 deg.

Of the 240 Mobelwagen produced and use in the war only 80 were 2cm Flakvierling and the rest are are armed with 3.7 cm Flask 43. The armour date used in the game is not fair, the gun shield armour reflected is actually the Superstruture armour. The shield armour of this vehicle is
Front 25/0 deg, Side 25/0 deg, Rear 25/0 deg and top is open.

There some armour produced in 1942 with 105 gun but only 2 or 8 maybe placed those in the Cezh, you know , just trying it out.

The armour reflected in the game, I found out that sometime it uses the turret but sometime they like the vehicle so much, they used the superstruture rather than the shield like the Mobelwagen.

Thank you

[o4r]

One last thing.

MG in tank the optical sight is either KgZF1 or 2.

KgZF1 normally for MG13, it manification is is X1.8 and field of vision is only 18 deg and only effective to 200 meters.

KgZF2 normally used for MG 34 or 42, is X1.8 with vision of also 18 deg and also only effective to 200 meters.

The MG in tank, maybe should be only 200 meters and not more. It is partiuclar true if they are ball mounting.

Finally, the indirect fire by main gun, can you change it to the requirement of direct sight not required. Gun like Sig/33 150 mm, 88 flak, the russian 152, the American occasionally used their sherman 75 like artillery and they just fire indirect shot. Field of vision is not require in this case. Maybe accurate suck but with 150 or 152 mm gun, who required accuracy.

So thank you again

[BryanMelvin]

Okay - I am fixing the Flak Gun Issue so that these cannot use the Unload/load/move and fire cheat.

I did not realize this was as bad as it was until after testing it.

The reason why this was coded this way was to reflect the use of Towed Heavy AAA Guns as AT Weapons. Like the German 88 was used in tow status against Allied tanks. However, spwaw cannot really perform this feat without effecting realism in a negitive manner. Therefore - this is being removed in oobs by making Heavy Flak units re-classed as Flak and adjusting oob formations.

[Gary Tatro]

Thanks you. I know that some people disagree but to not be able to move a MG and then fire makes the movement of the Heavy Flak abusive.

[RobertS]

Some attention need to be given to the Spanish OOBs in particular. There are several weapons there that are the indicated weapons in name only, but have the stats of the original weapon in the slot. Looking through, I see Nationalist troops are using 184-Panzerwurfmine, which is artillery. 90-hand grenade, whicj looks like a panzerfaust. 93-Gewspr30/1 looks like standard rifle grenade.(did they actually have 30/1?) 230-Flak38, looks like light MG. The Sdkz 10/4 in that OOB has a 150mm mortar with APCR Ammo to boot. Some troops have AP instead of HE grenades too. Designer had funny habit of changing 8mm weapons to 7mm. These OOBS were some of the most confusing to straighten out. I wished I had logged these errors as I went along, I could have been of much more help. Another off the top of my head, one of Vickers HMG in the Republican OOB is a light MG and is being used. Many of the weapons with errors are being used.

Thanks to Bryan and any others that are so dedicated to this game to keep going over these things. When I fired SPWAW up, I hadn't been this excited about a PC wargame since I first started playing V for Victory back in '90.

In regards the 20mm AA, having a HE PEN does seem to make a difference, but last night I played "Get rid of that Port" and a French plane got shot down outright with a 20mm with no HE pen. But I'm doubtless seeing more flaming wrecks with a pen value on the 20mms. But that's as much as I can say, not knowing the coding, because the ingame tests are leaving a margin of doubt.

[Warhorse]

In reference to the Spanish oob's, according to Hitlers Blue Legions, the 250th ID had no vehicles other than assorted cars/trucks to pull ATG's, they didn't have SPAA, tanks, or anything, unless captured only!!

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

Hi Byron:

The English Grant 37mm AT gun has a odd sound and graphic.

Bruce
Semper Fi

[BryanMelvin]

I would like to thank each of you for your valued imput on these oobs.

I will look into the Spanish OOBs and see what can be done to fix these.

I will look into the Grant 37mm Gun and see if the settings are off.

Please keep the info rolling in

I do nee info on the Italian OOBs and formations!

Oh and one other thing has been fixed - Smoking Crews that Fight like elite guards. These no long pop smoke like they used too! I would like to thank Rockin Harry for helping to solve this puzzle!

[BryanMelvin]

Originally posted by o4r
Any unit formation created, if the production for that particular vehicle is lesss than 10 units, maybe they should not appear in the game at all.

Some unit Cezh which belong to German formation, can it place back to actual German formation.

The use of ammo truck like LGM or actually is called Sd Kfz 252, according to history there is about 413 was produced from June 1940 to 1941, first by Demag then by Deutshe. It is normally attached to Sturmartikkeries batteries. They acutally have a 7.92 mm MG34 inside the vehicle for self defence. It is actually installed with a Maybach HL42TRKM engine which give them the performance of 65 km/h on road slightly faster than SdK Kfz 250 which is about 60 km/h which is equiped with a Maybach HL42TUKRM engine. Their dimension are acutally actually about the same size as a Sdk Kfz 250 so it should be size 2 but not 3. Their armour rating is
Superstructure
Front 18/30 deg, side 8/30 deg, Rear 8/55 deg, top/bottom 8/90 deg
Hull
Front 18/12 deg, Side 8/30 deg, Rear 8/45 deg Top/bottom 8/90 deg
Their production stop in Sept 1941 and was replaced with Sdk Kfz 250/6.

Sdk Fz 11/1 is are also one of those vehicle produce in mass and uses as a supply vehicle but was remove from the German formation as a supply vehicle.

The 12t-DB10 picture is attached and not the one shown in your picture which is required the outrigger. There were 10 produced in 1938 and 15 in 1940. There were in action in Poland and France and were indeed issue to the 9th Schwere Panzerkjagerabteilung. Can it be the common unit too. Since if 15cm Sig 33 on Pz II us used in the game which only 12 were produced, then 12t-DB10 should be in it too.

Thogh there was only 2 12.8 cm L/61 Pz SflV produced in whole war, one of it was still capture intact by Russian in 1943 with a 22 victory ring (22 victim). I just want to correct its armour. The hull armour is actually
Front 50/14(actually 13.5 but it is ok), Side is 30/0 deg and read is 30/45 deg.

Of the 240 Mobelwagen produced and use in the war only 80 were 2cm Flakvierling and the rest are are armed with 3.7 cm Flask 43. The armour date used in the game is not fair, the gun shield armour reflected is actually the Superstruture armour. The shield armour of this vehicle is
Front 25/0 deg, Side 25/0 deg, Rear 25/0 deg and top is open.

There some armour produced in 1942 with 105 gun but only 2 or 8 maybe placed those in the Cezh, you know , just trying it out.

The armour reflected in the game, I found out that sometime it uses the turret but sometime they like the vehicle so much, they used the superstruture rather than the shield like the Mobelwagen.

Thank you

O4r - can you please give me the unit slot of the LGM and the 12.8 cm L/61 Pz SflV ? Not sure where these are located and in what oobs? The mobile wagon is fixed.

[o4r]

Originally posted by BryanMelvin
O4r - can you please give me the unit slot of the LGM and the 12.8 cm L/61 Pz SflV ? Not sure where these are located and in what oobs? The mobile wagon is fixed.

The LGM is called SdKfz 252 LGM and the other guy is called 12.8cm Pz Sfl V. Both of them are in the spare unit for Germany in Cezh. Nation.

Hope it help.

Thank you.

[ruxius]

WEAPON SIZE:

I think I only discovered the edge of a mass cut&paste error in to ALL oobs ..
so I would suggest to anyone of you to check about this....

I found many weapons reporting a Weapon Size = 222
That should be clearly an error....

Some comparing weapon sizes:
37mm AA = 6
40mm AA = 6
75mm AA = 8
90mm AA = 12

Not sure about what is affected by weapon size in game terms but there is no oob which seem to be free from such error

slots #147 and #210 seems surely all wrong
(that's true for Italians ,Germans British US and Russia )

I also couldn't find a correct size for a 20mm AA and 25mm AA
Any suggestions ?

[ruxius]

UNIT SOUNDS

Editor provided with SPWAW list many weapons with sound = 0
but not all of them....

SPWAW encyclopiedia list the majority of them with zero sound..
After having read SoundsMap pdf file I am going to think that
put 0 sound in the editor means "Let the game load default sound as specified into SoundsMap.."
while inputting a sound number means "this sound file replaces default one for this weapon"

Please can someone confirm about this ?

Thx

[BryanMelvin]

Thanks Or4 and Ruxius,

I'll look into the weapon size thing and see what this is and see about the units too

[KG Erwin]

I'll reiterate my concern from another thread: weapon 84, the satchel charge, is given a weapon size 222, which is otherwise reserved for class 4 anti-aircraft weapons such as the GE 20mm Flak. I hardly think that anyone would try to toss a satchel charge at a plane. Weapons of this type (secondary infantry) are usually sized at 2 (AT Mines, etc). I haven't noticed this as an issue in gameplay, but it apparently was a typo in 7.1. I already corrected this in my own personal OOBs, but it needs to be corrected in the "official" OOBs.