Russo-German pact garrison values during Russo-Finnish war

[4personalbusiness]

If Finland and Russia are at war, but Russia and Germany are not, how are the neutrality pact garrison numbers calculated? There are German, Finnish and Russian troops intermingled all around the Finnish-Russian border. I'm unable to understand how the game is calculating the garrison values of both sides. Thanks.

[brian brian]

a lot of moving parts in that question

the "common border area" would be a dynamic set of hexes as each side advances or retreats in each movement or combat phase but garrison value only needs to be calculated at each DOW phase

German and USSR units would not exert ZoCs on each other - but Finnish units would cast ZoC on Russian units and vice versa

units in a ZoC do not count for Garrison value

not sure how MWiF would handle a Finn + German stack adjacent to a Russian land unit - not sure how I would answer that question, either

[paulderynck]

ZoCs are exerted into hexes not upon units so the German units stacked with Finns in a Russian ZoC "should" not count.

The key issue is that the Finns don't count but they have the capability to ZoC enough Russians to allow Germany to break the Pact early and possibly thoroughly massacre the Russian army.

[4personalbusiness]

LOL, Paul. That's the plan. It seems like the game is counting Finns who are not in a Russian ZOC as well as all Germans regardless of whether they are sharing a hex with the Finns. But, anyway, thanks for info guys. Very helpful.

[Joseignacio]

Very interesting indeed

[Orm]

It is my understanding that both Finns and Germans should be counted. Unless, of course, the are in enemy ZOC or outside the area counted.

[4personalbusiness]

That's the way the game is doing it.

[Centuur]

And that's correct:

RAW:

You only count the garrison values of your land and aircraft units
(including those of your aligned minors) on the common border with
the other major power. If you don’t have a common border, you can’t
use garrison ratios to break the pact.
A unit only has a value if it is face-up and not in the ZOC of a unit it is
at war with.

[paulderynck]

OK I had that wrong. But note that last sentence saying: "A unit only has a value if it is face-up and not in the ZOC of a unit it is at war with."

This means the German units in Finland (no matter where) do count and that the garrison value of the Russians gets reduced by Finn ZoCs.

[Majorball68]

That's the way it is. I was in trouble trying to stop the Germans breaking the pact early not realising the aircraft I had based in Lennigrad and everything in Finnish ZOC was not counted in the garrison values. The German player striped everything from all fronts to try and break the pact but the Ruskies managed to hang on by a thread by disengaging some units from the Finns and rebasing aircraft. Preparing for July/August 41 DOW!