Yessssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!

[warspite1]

The Collectors Edition of the World In Flames is going to include the fast minelayers of the Abdiel-class! [&o] The one obvious - and frankly irritating - omission from the naval counters are now included. Heaven.

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you ADG!

I need a lie down....that's waaaay too much excitement in one day for this old man.

[AxelNL]

not only that - it looks like Steve has improved the convoy routing. In the latest version I got today I finally can get that last Chinese resource to Japan!

Further testing needs to be done of course, but this is nice news as well I would think.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

not only that - it looks like Steve has improved the convoy routing. In the latest version I got today I finally can get that last Chinese resource to Japan!

Further testing needs to be done of course, but this is nice news as well I would think.

warspite1

Indeed - and this affects MWIF - whereas the new counters don't. Good news indeed (albeit as you say, further testing is required).

[paulderynck]

You know, other than the three stacks (seems excessive), there's a lot of similarity between the top and bottom (signature pic, that is) pictures. Perhaps that accounts for the joyfulness.

[CrusssDaddy]

Will there be rules for laying mines in Collector's Edition?

[paulderynck]

Only along the Norwegian coast. And even then the CW has to have more SCS in the North Sea than the Axis does(when the other conditions also exist).

[Jagdtiger14]

I have not taken a look, but I assume if ADG included the Abdiel class, they also included a couple of the larger Zerstorer classes such as: 1936A "Narvik" and MOB, and the 1936B class? Both of which were larger in tonnage as well as armament than the Abdiel class.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You know, other than the three stacks (seems excessive), there's a lot of similarity between the top and bottom (signature pic, that is) pictures. Perhaps that accounts for the joyfulness.

You said it. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Collectors Edition of the World In Flames is going to include the fast minelayers of the Abdiel-class! [&o] The one obvious - and frankly irritating - omission from the naval counters are now included. Heaven.

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you ADG!

I need a lie down....that's waaaay too much excitement in one day for this old man.

warspite1

I've not had too deep a look - and what I am saying maybe total rubbish of course, but from what I can make out, in addition to the above there are:

Loads of 'what-if' CV for the Soviets, French, Germans and Italians to muck around with.

I am hoping at least a couple of the Abdiel's (max 4) are on their 1st construction cycle

The French have the minelayer Pluton (along with the Abdiel's, a major omission previously) no doubt already built

The Italians have a Red Sea Flotilla, a couple of old protected cruisers and an old scout/torpedo boat. Presumably these all start the game? They also seem to have the option of building another couple of improved Littorios.

Soviets appear to have 4(?) more 'what-if CA's they can build

The Japanese appear to be able to build the 4th Katori and 4 Super Aganos. There is also a Japanese auxiliary cruiser counter (don't know if this latter vessel has to be built)

The Germans appear to have 2 BB, maybe a BC and 4 CA as 'what-if' builds too.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I have not taken a look, but I assume if ADG included the Abdiel class, they also included a couple of the larger Zerstorer classes such as: 1936A "Narvik" and MOB, and the 1936B class? Both of which were larger in tonnage as well as armament than the Abdiel class.

I don't know if they did or not, but to add the German destroyers just because they are larger than the Abdiel class minelayers misses the point. The Abdiel's were not only used for minelaying, but also as fast transports. It is sort of an apples and oranges comparison, especially in armament since the functions of the classes were totally different from each other.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I have not taken a look, but I assume if ADG included the Abdiel class, they also included a couple of the larger Zerstorer classes such as: 1936A "Narvik" and MOB, and the 1936B class? Both of which were larger in tonnage as well as armament than the Abdiel class.

I don't know if they did or not, but to add the German destroyers just because they are larger than the Abdiel class minelayers misses the point. The Abdiel's were not only used for minelaying, but also as fast transports. It is sort of an apples and oranges comparison, especially in armament since the functions of the classes were totally different from each other.

warspite1

A few things here (and for comparison I use the larger, more powerful German class mentioned in every case - the 1936A).

a) firstly the German ships were not larger - they were actually remarkably similar dimensions wise – but no, the German ships were smaller:

Dimensions:
Abdiels: 418ft x 40ft x 14ft 9in
1936 A (Mob): 416ft 8in x 39ft 4in x 13ft 1in

b) secondly, again the German ships were not larger in tonnage terms either. Once again they are both pretty similar but the British ships were slightly heavier

Displacement:
Abdiels: 2,650t Standard; 4,000t deep load
1936 A (Mob): 2,603t Standard; 3,597t deep load

c) thirdly, armament. The German ships possessed the larger gun (although note that the 1936B had to revert back to the 5-inch gun due to the major problems with the larger gun used on the 1936 A in terms of fireability and weight that made the ships poor seakeepers). The German gun was also considerably slower in rate of fire. Even so, in all cases the German main armament was heavier. The German ships also carried torpedoes too (that the Abdiels didn't) as befitting their destroyer function. But the primary role of the Abdiels was fast minelaying and they carried almost 3 times the number of mines that the German destroyers could carry.

Armament:
Abdiels: 6 x 4-inch - 15-20 rounds per minute - up to 160 mines
1936 A (Mob): 5 x 5.9-inch – 7-8 rounds per minute – up to 60 mines

But as said above, this is apples and oranges territory; it is unfair (and pointless) to compare destroyer weaponry with fast minelayer weaponry to decide what should or shouldn’t go into the game when that is not ADG's reasoning. I am sure we all have our own wishlist.

The reason I was annoyed with the absence of Pluton and the Abdiels is that the game is supposed to have every ship from light cruiser upwards contained within. The Pluton and the Abdiels were both designated cruisers and therefore (rightly or wrongly) their absence rankled.

ADG has decided arbitrarily not to include destroyer classes (other than a few limited exceptions e.g. Polish, Portuguese and Romanian destroyer flotillas) but deals with this ship type in abstract fashion in Convoys in Flames. So yes, while I understand you wanting certain things included (and if ADG did include them then great as more ships the better!) the assumption that German destroyers need to be included just because the British cruiser-minelayers are included misses the point.

[brian brian]

I am quite looking forward to playing the 'new' game and expect/hope to get one set up and playing by late Autumn.

As for the naval aspect, I hope that with the publication of the Collector's Edition and probably thus a bit of an end point for the Corps/Army level game, that eventually us WiF nuts will return to interest in the division level game "Master Edition" which never yet made it to the orders threshold to be printed. And if that were to approach a 3D reality (or virtual), the game could include going deeper into the naval systems - eliminating some playability abstractions and including more of the smaller ships.

Even the current system with Cruiser in Flames is a bit odd, without enough losses until perhaps one uses the "Cruiser Damage" optional, which doesn't look to have made it out of the proposal stage. I liked it for a reason having little to do with Cruisers, because with the extra results in combat, when you had a critical mission at sea you would tend to send Battleships to get-it-done, rather than just more Cruisers as gamer-esque 'soak off' type losses.

(That idea will become a little more true with the newest Shore Bombardment rules, where the BB goes out to pound the enemy and some Cruisers help escort it a little bit).

[philabos]

Sorry if I missed it, but wasn't the outstanding feature of this class is they could make 40 knots?

[Klydon]

They could hit 40 knots and even more outstanding was that they could maintain 38 knots for long periods of time. (At least until the fuel ran out).

[philabos]

I guess the idea was to zip n, lay mines, and quickly zip out. HMS MANXMAN lasted until the 1970's.

[wodin]

Warspite, now forgive me if I'm wrong here but after careful consideration and many months reading your posts I get the feeling you really love Naval things like ships and such.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Warspite, now forgive me if I'm wrong here but after careful consideration and many months reading your posts I get the feeling you really love Naval things like ships and such.

warspite1

How very perceptive of you old man [:D]. Yes, while I love all aspects of WWII - and I mean everything - I do have a special interest in all things Boaty Mcboatface.