Good Opening Moves for US

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:23 am

Hey guys,

Ive always played the IJN during a PBEM match so I dont have alot of experience playing Allied against another player.

What are some good opening stratagies that would work against a good player.

Im playing Yamamoto right now and I need all the help I can get.
Should I learn to like sushi now, or is there a chance for me?

David

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:58 am

Hide until turn 75 when your troops show up to protect Noumea. Turn 85 is the next batch in Brisbane. Until then, your ONLY care in the world is protecting Brisbane & Noumea.

You have 12 divisions to protect 5 bases against 10 divisions until then. Forget PM, it's a pipe dream. Let him have it so you have somewhere close to train your pilots on

As long as you have not pissed away your navy, you can start your counter drive on turn 85 when the 6 divisions show up in Brisbane.

Japan's got pretty much all it's troops on turn 42, so you need to not over extend yourself as he has from 42 to 75 to spank you VERY badly anywhere he chooses. The next major group of troops for Japan is turn 180 (a LONG ways away!).

If you can keep your troops off ships (loosing divisions on sinking ships is VERY bad!), you'll do fine. Defend in depth. Thats your plan and your strength.

Japan MUST use those troops that show up by turn 42 to be well on the way to auto-victory (or prevent your turn 75/85 deployments by capturing Noumea or Brisbane).

The goal here for Japan is to gain a foothold on a non-malaria base so troops no longer need to be rotated back to Truk. Without establishing this foothold, Japan will never be able to scratch the 21 divisions you will have on turn 85.

Keep in mind that from turn 42 onwards, Japan does have the transport capacity to land those 10 divisions ANYWHERE with ships to spare. This is why you must have your CV's intact for a counter attack (takes a lot of transports to carry 10 divisions + engineers and supplies and HQ's and base units

)

Thats my Allied plan in a nutshell ... do your best to harrass shipping with air power and submarines, you can also use this time to rotate your ships back through Pearl to get their AA upgrades. Each transport you sink is 2000+ troops that will NOT be landing on your beach.

Use your engineers to maximize all your rear bases and power them up to maximum fortification levels. It really kills the effects of air power against you when it is a size 9 fort.

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:35 am

What would happen if you lost most of your Med Bomber squads at PM? Like if they got caught on the ground when the airfield got blasted and didnt get it repaired before the base was captured?
Would you still have a chance to hold?
Not that it would ever happen to a GREAT stratagist like myself

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:44 am

You got your Hudsons & A-24's stuck there this fast? What did he drop on you to take out the airfield completely this fast?

Last I checked you only just started the game

When a base is captured, the aircraft are destroyed. If you got at least part of them out, the part that got out should rebuild.

If you think you can ship enough troops to PM to prevent it from falling, I've got some nice "swamp land" for sale.

If you invest that highly in PM to hold it, you are going to find a transport TF showing up at Noumea fairly soon.

Remember that the guy you are playing against can count too, and if he sees 4+ INF units parked there, he knows that you have stripped Noumea & Australia to do it.

Remember that you only have 3 divisions at Noumea & 3 at Brisbase plus 2 at Cairns & Cooktown that can be moved. The Northern Command group which is your other 3 cannot be put on a boat to protect Noumea/Luganville/Efate/etc.

You only get 3 more 22 turns into the game. They can't be everywhere at once.

Japan's strong advantage is that they have MANY smaller INF units which lets them be everywhere at once. About 20 by turn 42 to supplement the 10 divisions that they have.

This gives Japan the ability to be everywhere at once, with you having to selectively commit your forces to where you want to defend. You can NOT do it all against a human player.

The Allied player is hampered by the fact during the start of the game that all of their INF units are 4400+ size which makes him very vulnerable to transport sinkings since it takes multiple transports to move any of these units shifting the odds towards a sunken tranport holding at a minimum of 1500 troops.

Also remember division sizes: 144 Assault strength Japan vs 117 Assault strength Allies ...

Remember it only takes 2 to 1 odds + fortification level to capture a base. Two Japan divisions will take out 1 Allied division as long as some engineers remove the fortifications.

Following that logic, the 3 RCT units at Noumea can hold against ONLY 5 divisions shipped from Truk + engineers. Japan has 10 divisions on turn 42 if they planned safely and used only their smaller INF units for messing with the Allies up to that point in time.

You can choose to ship your divisions to PM to try and save it, but look at the map carefully when doing so.

Having taken Noumea, you'll be unhappy to know that no more ships enter the game for the Allies. Period. It stops the calendar countdown until Noumea is retaken by the Allies.

Turn 42 + travel time + load time puts those 10 divisions at Noumea before the 1st Marines arrive on turn 75. You need to measure your losses very carefully before turn 75 as the Allies because you might very well need to have 6+ divisions at Noumea.

Just my two cents on the poor Allies...

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:58 am

I wish it was only the Hudsons and A-24's..those I got out.
But much to my chagrine All 3 of my B-26, The A-20, 2 B-25, 1 P-400, 2-P 40 and 1 P-39 squads are stuck there

Ive only played against the AI as allied. I had just transfered all those squads there that turn to try to get some exp in them before he took PM. Well my great PBY squads totaly missed his CV task force till it was rounding Gili.

Next thing I know my airfield damage is at 90. Now he is unloading the everything but the kitchen sink there and im affraid im gonna lose it real fast with all those squads stuck on the blasted airfield.

Should I try to save them with my CV's or is my position hopeless?

I knew I should have pulled out of there on turn 1

Me and Yamamoto have gotten in alot of turns today. Good thing my wife works weekends

Dave- About to be fired as Allied Commander

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:24 am

Yamamoto's certainly training you fast!

I was editing my message when you replied ...

SoulBlazer · Post by **SoulBlazer** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:24 am

What sec are you playing, though, and what sec is the advice that Mr. Frag giving for? It makes a HUGE differnece to both players if you're playing Sec 14 vs. 17 vs. 19.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:26 am

This is 17/19 advice. Only difference in 19 is that Japan causes more pain with air power. The troops available do not change radically until later in the game.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:30 am

Frag,

those are not DIVISIONS. They are Brigades and Regiments. Your advise is sound. Unfortunately, it is also confusing because of your incorrect terminology. I would call them regimental equivalents or something like that.

SoulBlazer · Post by **SoulBlazer** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:30 am

I'm not sure -- I'm playing Sec 19 with Grotius right now and never played it before in PBEM (my current one with Drex and my past ones have been 17). And I'm getting more troops as Japan. Enough to allow me to do offensive operations a lot longer. Well, a good Japanese player should take the same areas in both sec's but at least in 19 he can defend better. (20k front line troops in both PM and Lunga will make the Allies attack in major force.)

ADavidB · Post by **ADavidB** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:46 am

Originally posted by Deban
What would happen if you lost most of your Med Bomber squads at PM? Like if they got caught on the ground when the airfield got blasted and didnt get it repaired before the base was captured?
Would you still have a chance to hold?
Not that it would ever happen to a GREAT stratagist like myself

A few things to remember the next time you start a game as the Allies :

1 - Tac bombers eat up supplies like you won't believe, so at the beginning of a game immediately move them back to some nice southern locations that are right on the main supply chain.

2 - If you put those Allied tac bombers on "naval search" at 20%, they will fill in nicely, get some gentle experience, increase readiness, lower fatigue and help locate enemy ships and subs.

3 - Use non-torpedo tac bombers against enemy ground targets - for example, if ( more likely when ) the Japanese player takes Gili-Gili - have your Australian-based tac bombers take turns hitting the port at Gili-Gili. You will slow down or prevent the expansion of the facilities there, knaw away at troops, use up the enemy's supplies, and get easy experience.

4 - Keep only a few fighter squadrens in Port Moresby and rotate them out regularly - the Japanese player can't easily shut the airbase at PM if - a) there is adequate supply ( see comment #1 ) or unless b) he brings up his carriers to bomb PM. ( If he is using his carrier planes to bomb PM that gives you a better opportunity to bring your carriers up - land attack tires out carrier pilots quickly. )

5 - Be prepared to use your surface forces early to hamper the Japanese assults - sure, you'll take your lumps, but every Japanese transport that is sunk or badly damaged in the first couple of weeks around NG or the Solomons is a transport that won't be around to bring troops further south.

6 - As a corollary to #1 - bring your decimated air squadrens south to rebuild - don't waste supplies up north.

Have fun -

Dave Baranyi

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:50 am

Me and Yamamoto are playing Sen 17.
The game teased me by letting my Fighters go up for CAP.
But it still wouldnt let me transfer any planes out of there.
I was stupid and tried to save them by flying in 2 brigades from the mainland but Yamamoto was to smart for that as he had LR Cap covering PM

So now on top of losing all my air Squads im about to lose the better part of 3 Brigades.

Is there a record for who lost Austrailia the quickest?

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:56 am

Originally posted by Mr.Frag

Remember that the guy you are playing against can count too...

And he can read too.

We're on May 12th or 13th. No sign of the Allied CVs, although he keeps saying they are near by. Noumea will fall tomorrow or the next day, depending if he had time to build up the fortifications.

I also cut off their retreat route by taking the dot next to them first so I am expecting a lot of prisoners.

Yamamoto

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:05 am

Frag,

If you would like to reformat this into a general post about allied strategy, combining your own two posts and the observations made by others, then put that in its own thread in the War Room, I would like to add it to the FAQ. You have some good points that should be save for posterity.

One thing though: don't use the word division when you mean brigade/regiment. :p

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:20 am

Hey Yamamoto,
If you would send me my next turn instead of posting here we might be able to finish the game by the end of the night :p

I figure Im gonna lose brisbane within the next 10 turns or so.
So anyword on who holds the record on losing Austrailia the fastest in a PBEM game?

And BTW im gonna lose PM not Nomea in the next few turns.
Let me rephrase that..I HOPE im not gonna lose Nomea in the
next few turns:rolleyes:

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:32 am

division when you mean brigade/regiment

Yea, just shoot me will ya

I noticed what you mean when I went back to look.

Somewhere along the line in the last 60 hours of UV play this weekend and very little sleep, my mind left me.

Obviously I'm taking about the brigades/regiments that make UP the division, not the division itself. I hope I was not pushing people off the deep end looking for missing troops.

As to Soul's comments, yes, #19 is far more serious as the Japan troops show up on turn 21!!!! instead of turn 42. The only real problem you have with this increase in speed is that it is hard to have enough transports that soon in the game to be able to move the large numbers of troops. We are talking about moving 10 x 7000 sized troops plus enough engineers to destroy the fortifications very quickly to minimize your losses from prolonged combat.

side note: it's 9 regiments in scenario 19, 2 more show up on turn 44, but you would really be foolish to not press this huge time advance to the fullest.

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:57 am

Originally posted by Deban
Hey Yamamoto,
If you would send me my next turn instead of posting here we might be able to finish the game by the end of the night :p

Actually, I was posting while waiting on you.

I figure Im gonna lose brisbane within the next 10 turns or so.
So anyword on who holds the record on losing Austrailia the fastest in a PBEM game?

Bah. I don't usually go for Australia. It's too hard to hold for too little gain. Although with all of your planes destroyed at Port Moresby...

And BTW im gonna lose PM not Nomea in the next few turns.
Let me rephrase that..I HOPE im not gonna lose Nomea in the
next few turns:rolleyes:

PM is now under new management. See you in Noumea around mid July.

Yamamoto

Deban · Post by **Deban** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:26 am

You guys wanna see a sad AAR?

Weather: Overcast

Air attack on TF at 9,41

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
SBD Dauntless x 54
TBD Devastator x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 19 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 28 damaged
TBD Devastator x 10 destroyed
TBD Devastator x 11 damaged

ENS K. Sugino of EI-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 3

Japanese Ships
DD Ariake
CV Zuikaku, Torpedo hits 1
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Yugure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 9,41

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 7
SBD Dauntless x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 2 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 16 damaged

LTJG M. Tootle of VF-3 is credited with kill number 2

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, on fire, heavy damage
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Zuikaku

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 1 destroyed
B-17E Fortress x 6 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Asanagi
PG Seikai Maru

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x B-17E Fortress at 6000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Asahisan Maru

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 10,45

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
D3A Val x 35
B5N Kate x 30

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 16 destroyed
D3A Val x 24 damaged
B5N Kate x 14 destroyed
B5N Kate x 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 damaged

ENS E. O'Hare of VF-3 is credited with kill number 3

LT T. Ichihara of EI-3 Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown
CA Portland, Bomb hits 1
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 2
CA Chester, Bomb hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 10,45

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
B5N Kate x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 2 destroyed

LT R. Crommelin of VF-42 is credited with kill number 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Cairns , at 7,56

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12

no losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 9,41

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 16
TBD Devastator x 3

no losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless x 3 damaged
TBD Devastator x 1 destroyed
TBD Devastator x 1 damaged

ENS G.Kawato of EII-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 2

LCDR J. Taylor of VT-5 is KILLED

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 10,40

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3

no losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress x 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Furutaka

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x B-17E Fortress at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 9,41

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
SBD Dauntless x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, on fire, heavy damage
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 9,41

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5
SBD Dauntless x 8

no losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 10,45

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
D3A Val x 4
B5N Kate x 15

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 4 destroyed
B5N Kate x 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3 damaged

ENS E. O'Hare of VF-3 is credited with kill number 4

LCDR C. Fenton of VF-42 is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Lexington

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Port Moresby

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 38303 troops, 438 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 9430 troops, 104 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Port Moresby base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 50

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 8898
Guns lost 75

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The worst part is that even though PM was closed all my Carrier Planes decided to land there instead of going to Australia. Except for 5 remaining F3F's who landed at Cairns

So in a nutshell when he took PM he killed 183 planes:mad:

Might as well send both The York and Lady Lex back to pearl now

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:15 am

Deban, something I'm trying now (to the amusement of some here, no doubt

) is the abandonment of PM beginning at turn one. I've heard reference to it as "Fortress Australia", but in a nutshell (albeit a big nutshell) here it is:

1. Leave the Kanga force at Wau. I tried to get them to PM to be evacuated with the rest, but no luck. They made it as far as Lea Lea (lousy dirt path movement

)
2. Get anything that can float to PM and start evacuating the infantry forces first. FT TFs, AKs, APs, subs, PBYs, C47s, rubber ducky water wings.... anything. (something along the lines of Dunkirk ahould give a nice visual).
3. On Australia, if you have evacuated troops and planes from PNG, (forget the supplies) you should have a nice defensive force protecting Oz. In one of my games Cairns has the New Guinea HQ and 2 infantry BDEs, Townsville has Northern Command HQ and all Northern Command INF (3 BDEs), Rockhampton has the 7th Australian HQ and its 3 INF BDEs, and Brisbane has the 3rd Australian HQ and its 3 INF BDEs. All four bases have BF support (I moved the BF from Charter Towers to Townsville after the three bomber squadrons were repaired and moved). Cooktown is the odd man out.
4. Send the 7 subs at Brissy to mine GG or somewhere close to there, then swing west to assist with the evacuation. Leave them in the Coral Sea to attrit the IJN should they make a move to Australia.
5. In Noumea, sit tight. See if the IJN makes a move to L'ville and Efate. In my game with Quark, he took Efate early and it served as target practice for my SOPAC LBA.

What has got me into trouble as the US player is the itch to *do something*. Quite frankly, I've found the only offensive platforms of any use early are either under the waves or above them...but definitely not *on* them.

Patience.
Patience.
Patience.
Patience.

The IJN must win early.
The USN must simply survive.

Just an opinion. If you want, check out the AAR "Do Condors eat Sushi?" for more details.

Good luck

Mike_B20 · Post by **Mike_B20** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:57 pm

Hey Deban,

Looking at that AAR, sure the PM result was grim but on the bright side, looks like you really mauled the Jap carriers.

You might even be winning.