Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending

[PvtBenjamin]

I propose a change to the PBEM game so players can't view their opponents Diplomacy & Research spending. Knowing what your opponent spends greatly reduces available strategies impact and isn't realistic. If I am Allied the Axis players merely need to view the Diplomacy & Research graph and offset my moves, it makes no sense and takes away from the game. If the Axis player sees the French spent 50/100 on Diplomacy they know the diplomacy investment is towards Spain and negates the French move. etc etc

[Sugar]

But would it change anything, if you wouldn`t know?

Spending MPPs on diplo is inevitable anyway, if your opponent does, you`ll have to counter. The best way to do the inevitable is to be first; the target doesn`t really matter.

Haven`t said that, the stats provide too many informations for free, especially the number and kind of units of every nation.

[PvtBenjamin]

If it wouldn't change anything then I guess you are ok with it. Actually it changes a lot.

What if French/Brits spend 300 on USSR? It isn't typical the Axis spends $$ on USSR relations but would given the knowledge.

How is it realistic that one knows immediately exactly what the opponent has spent of R&D?

[KorutZelva]

Especially if you make a push towards the USSR or USA as the allies, you're essentially exposing France will be weak before your chits have a chance to convert if your opponent pays attention to graphs. As a big user of diplo I wouldn't mind at least getting the benefit of scoring a hit before the jig is up. [:D]

Maybe if certain info would only be revealed at a delay or required to have a certain level of Spy tech to know... [:)]

[Sugar]

No, not realistic, that`s for sure.

But anyway, you won`t be 100% sure of the target, and you also wouldn`t be if an opponent spends 150 MPPs, unless he spends 750 in 5 steps, but even in that case you won`t know the target.

It`s as simple as that: spend 250 MPPs into Spain as Axis asap, another 150 italian asap, and react to your opponent the first time he achieves a hit at another target, right after achieving an own, thereby letting the air out completely, and independant of any Stats. At least I agree, there`s no need to provide any such information.

[PvtBenjamin]

I'm glad you guys agree. Maybe a delay is a good idea. It is one of those issues that doesn't translate from AI to PBEM well.

It just seems to be a disconnect with the spirit of the game.

[Taxman66]

On the other hand, if you think about it, keeping diplomatic ventures secret (particularly to neutral minors who are more than happy to play one off the other) isn't very realistic either.

[Icier]

I reckon it should depend on whether you have invested on intelligence....nothing spent on intelligence, no access to the others.

[Philippeatbay]

The way it works in real life is that if one country's embassy/government starts leaning on the host country, it's not very long before everyone else in the diplomatic community in that country figures out that something's up. You just have to pay attention to who talks to whom and for how long at diplomatic receptions and functions. Since that's what embassy types are paid to do (among other things), they make a point of going to all the parties and staying sober enough to keep track of what's going on. You won't know the details, but if Germany is trying to get in Japan's pants, the signs will be obvious. Think of it as social gossip as a form of espionage: a country's diplomatic community is a lot like a small village, and everyone tends to know everyone else's business at a gut level, if not in detail.

[ikrananka]

While one could argue that diplomatic efforts could easily be transparent in the real world due to the way that the global diplomatic community works, I doubt that this argument could be extended to spending on research which would be more closely linked to intelligence and spying. For instance in my PBEM game against Taxman66 he immediately deduced in the very first turn that I cashed in research in two areas and spent them on another. I doubt that at the outset of war that kind of intelligence would have been available to either side.

In my opinion, the data and graphs for an opponent should either be completely turned off until the end of the game, or only partially revealed as more levels of Intelligence are gained.

[PvtBenjamin]

Thats why Taxman thinks not showing it is a bad idea. Unfortunately to many decisions are made in the game by input from players who's only interest is enabling their ability to win.

[Taxman66]

On the other hand there are many things in this (and other) games that would be nearly impossible to keep a secret but easily are.
For example, it takes almost zero spying/recon to learn that ships (and their type) are being built (and where), or that large numbers of men and equipment are moving into areas (not necessarily their exact compositions and exact locations), but enough to know of large formations gathering.

I wouldn't object (and even approve) of the Research investments being kept hidden if spying allowed for occasional information in what the opponent is researching (at least in regards to equipment based research as opposed to doctrine-Warfare based research).

[Taxman66]

It can always be suggested to the developers to add a game option to deactivate the Reports button. That should be a very simple coding addition.
A bit harder would be to add an option that only showed reports for your side.