4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet HQ Question

[specie1]

Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: specie1

Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?

They are called fleet HQs in your title. If they are both Command and Fleet HQs (like the Pacific Ocean Areas Command for the Allies) they still get the bonuses of a Naval HQ - the n is there to tell you that.

[specie1]

sorry, it's in the title of the post

on the japanese side. 4th fleet and Southeast Fleet HQs

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: specie1

Why do these HQs have a little n next to them.

As I understand it, they are command headquarters not fleet headquarters.

Is this a mistake?

They have the lower case "n" appended because they are both a Naval HQ. They are not Command HQs.

An HQ unit can not be a combination of 2 or more different types of HQs.

Alfred

[specie1]

But if you click on them in the upper left hand corner they both say command headquarters

[Alfred]

They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
 
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.
 
Alfred

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min

[Zecke]

4 fleet HQ are for command infantry units.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min

Yawn ... [>:]

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min

Yawn ... [>:]

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred

Interesting. It seems the confusion is because LCUs can be assigned to these HQs as though they are Command HQs?

[Sardaukar]

LCUs can be attached to ANY HQs.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Alfred
They are not Command HQs in the official scenarios.
Please post a screenshot and advise scenario you are playing.

Alfred

They actually are. There are 9 HQn Japan units in Stock 1 Scenario: 7 of them are NavalHQ, and 2 (4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet) are CommandHQ in the LCU tab

Anyone can check it in their game by starting Stock 1 scenario as Japan. Takes like 3 min

Yawn ... [>:]

I don't care what you or others think, the code trumps your beliefs.

I looked them up in the editor before posting. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are HQ types 21 and 25 respectively in scenario 1. That makes them Naval HQs. As opposed to the Japanese HQs which are HQ type 109 and therefore Command HQs.

When michaelm introduced the graphic improvement of appending the lower case identifiers to HQs he did not create a new HQ type. The identifiers merely state in visual format what the code says is the HQ type. Therefore an appended "n" automatically identifies it as a Naval HQ, just as a "c" identifies it as a Corps HQ, an "a" as an Air HQ et al. All directly from the code.

The code allows for a single type of HQ to be attributed to a single HQ unit. Multiple HQ types attributed to a unit are not possible.

Alfred

You can not care as well, but it's a fact that 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

[adarbrauner]

-

[US87891]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
... 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

Alfred is quite correct, but there are some other things going on. The confusion arises from 4th Fleet, 5th Fleet, and Southeast Area Fleet being attached to themselves; i.e., they do not report to a ‘higher’ HQ. They are, therefore, at the top of their respective OOB reporting trees (kinda ‘theater’ level). Being such a ‘top-level’ HQ has certain implications for attachment (think PPs, base capture ownership, etc..) but does not imply anything else. They “look” like command HQs when one looks at the attachment menu screen, because they are in the left-most position, like other command HQs. But this does not signify command status.

As Alfred says, the “only” way an HQ is identified as a “Command” HQ, for purposes of code adders, is if it has a “10” in the HQ-Type field. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are both “2”, so they are not Command, but Naval HQs even though they are ‘top-level’.

Matt

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: US87891

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
... 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

Alfred is quite correct, but there are some other things going on. The confusion arises from 4th Fleet, 5th Fleet, and Southeast Area Fleet being attached to themselves; i.e., they do not report to a ‘higher’ HQ. They are, therefore, at the top of their respective OOB reporting trees (kinda ‘theater’ level). Being such a ‘top-level’ HQ has certain implications for attachment (think PPs, base capture ownership, etc..) but does not imply anything else. They “look” like command HQs when one looks at the attachment menu screen, because they are in the left-most position, like other command HQs. But this does not signify command status.

As Alfred says, the “only” way an HQ is identified as a “Command” HQ, for purposes of code adders, is if it has a “10” in the HQ-Type field. 4th Fleet and Southeast Area Fleet are both “2”, so they are not Command, but Naval HQs even though they are ‘top-level’.

Matt

The attachment as though they were command HQs is what I was getting at - I am well aware you can attach LCUs to any HQ. So the lack of command designation in the code must mean you do not get the benefits of a command HQ, as adarbrauner was guessing.

[specie1]

i have screen shots of the hqs i did with paint

How do i post them here

They clearly describe both 4th and SE as Command Headquarters

and Fleet 1, 2, and 3 as Naval Headquarters.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

You can not care as well, but it's a fact that 4th, Southeast AND 5th fleet are considered as theatre commands in Scen one, and multiple land locations and land units are related to their command, and if any of the units under their command conquers a new location, that shall befall under their jurisdiction respectively, etc...even though all of them are fleet commands , as well and at the same time...this is also a fact, very clear one...
What the implications of this, I don't know...your insight seems pointing out that in spite of them being theatre commands, they shall not bestow command benefits to the units under their command radius...indeed?

In AE, technically there are no theatre commands.

AE recognises only 6 types of HQs:

[center]Command
Army
Corps
Amphibious
Naval
Air[/center]

There is no Theatre Command in that list of HQ types.

You should be very careful in telling me what is a "fact" in AE, unless of course you like being made to look like a fool when you peddle nonsense. Unlike many who post on the forum, I do not present opinions on game mechanics as "facts". Instead I almost always research the issue before posting and providing accurate and correct facts, not insights. You should try doing the same someday.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


... So the lack of command designation in the code must mean you do not get the benefits of a command HQ ...

I repeat, an HQ unit can be only one of the six types of HQs present in the game. It follows that only the characteristics assigned to that HQ type apply to the HQ unit. Command HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Command HQ unit, Corps HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Corps HQ unit, Air HQ characteristics apply only to a designated Air HQ unit et al.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: specie1

i have screen shots of the hqs i did with paint

How do i post them here

They clearly describe both 4th and SE as Command Headquarters

and Fleet 1, 2, and 3 as Naval Headquarters.

They are not Command HQs.

• The editor tells you they are Naval HQs and therefore for all game purposes are only Naval HQs
• At the bottom of the Truk base screen both units display the Naval HQ type icon, not the Command HQ type icon
• The range of the two units is not consistent with that normally associated with a Command HQ

Post #14 explains the impact of being at the top of the OOB reporting tree. What you see is at worst a graphical glitch brought about by not differentiating between Command HQs which report to themselves and non Command HQs which also report to themselves. This at worst "graphical glitch" has no impact on the algorithms. Nor should it have any impact on any human player who pays careful attention to all the relevant game information.

Alfred