The Code of the Samurai (Bushido) and WW2

[spence]

The Japanese Army in particular and the IJN (more occasionally than the IJA due to the circumstances of its combats) often treated its prisoners with less than whatever was written into "World Law" (the Geneva Convention).

Yet the IJA was heralded for its very civilized treatment of POWs during the Russo-Japanese War and in WW1.

In WW2 the IJA and to a lesser extent the IJN experimented (scientifically supposedly) on enemy POWs and by forcing them to perform militarily significant constructions (the Burma Railway cost 90,000 POWs AND just as many Thai citizens (theoretically IJ Allies).

I can't find much in the Code of Bushido that justifies the way the Japanese behaved towards their enemies. Can you?

[witpqs]

I have read that there was a propagandized version of Bushido code used on the Japanese population in WWII, and of course it permeated the military too. So as far as I know, *not* real Bushido.

[Big B]

The Code of Bushido is Bullshido - it was used to justify unimaginable cruelty to the defenseless in WW2.
If there was any actual justice at the end of WW2, those who hid behind Bushido would be hung as criminals after the war - as I believe thousands were.
As a point of reference, when the Western Allies closed in on Germany in 1945, - allied POW's wrote about conditions in camps improving...when the same happened in Asia/Pacific, the Japanese were documented to execute (often by setting on fire) Allied POW's.
If there was ever a sorry state of humanity displayed in WW2 - it was offered under the code of Bushido.

This is a toxic subject today, but if anyone wants to really know what happened in Asia/Pacific during the war - from Black Christmas in Hong Kong 1941 - to the end in 1945 - there is plenty of horrible reading out there...makes ISIS sound like Choir Boys.

ORIGINAL: spence

The Japanese Army in particular and the IJN (more occasionally than the IJA due to the circumstances of its combats) often treated its prisoners with less than whatever was written into "World Law" (the Geneva Convention).

Yet the IJA was heralded for its very civilized treatment of POWs during the Russo-Japanese War and in WW1.

In WW2 the IJA and to a lesser extent the IJN experimented (scientifically supposedly) on enemy POWs and by forcing them to perform militarily significant constructions (the Burma Railway cost 90,000 POWs AND just as many Thai citizens (theoretically IJ Allies).

I can't find much in the Code of Bushido that justifies the way the Japanese behaved towards their enemies. Can you?

[MakeeLearn]

Bushido The Soul Of Japan 13th Edition
by Inazo Nitobe
Publication date 1908
https://archive.org/details/bushidothesoulof014620mbp


"Bushido: The Soul of Japan written by Inazo Nitobe was one of the first books on Samurai ethics that was originally written in English for a Western audience."

[MakeeLearn]

JAPANESE ARMY BRUTALITY DURING THE ASIAN-PACIFIC WAR:
Origins, Causes, Denials, and Imperial Responsibility.

https://digitalcommons.apus.edu/cgi/vie ... ext=theses

[spence]

I know that individual Japanese soldiers and soldiers acted in a manner that acted along the lines specificed in the Geneva Conventions. I know also that some Japanese soldiers/sailors exploited the divide between the Russians and the other Allied powers. To be blunt the Germans used a significant amount of their available rail resources to ship Jews to the extermination camps in the East. Considering that most of the Japanese supply to whatever they helded at any point them some in their war against the Russians what cost do the Japanese pay for that
?

[MakeeLearn]

Bushido: Way of Total Bullsh*t

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

"At the time of its initial publication, Nitobe's Bushido: The Soul Of Japan received a lukewarm reception from those Japanese who read the English edition. Tsuda Sokichi wrote a scathing critique in 1901, rejecting Nitobe's central arguments. According to Tsuda… the author knew very little about his subject. Nitobe's equation of the term bushido with the soul of Japan was flawed, as bushido could only be applied to a single class… Tsuda further chastised Nitobe for not distinguishing between historical periods."

[MakeeLearn]

Japanese Bushido saved lives of British Navy in WW II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5n9XXP-ZE

[Big B]

I don't hate Japanese, not at all.
Japan was in a war of national survival - no qualms about that.

But to excuse the cruelty of thousands of Jap operatives under the blanket of Bushido is a horror by itself.
Has anyone ever read history?

Are humans - humans or not? If the USA had an arm of it's Government that execured (cruelly by the way) all considered non-humans it came across during that war...we as Americans would repudiate that action.

Germany has been so thoroughly repudiated for any possible crimes - it borders on the hysteric. ... yet in many minds Japan is an innocent victum of Western Racism.

It's all bullshit.

Bushido is NO badge to hide behind.

EDIT: Yes I am passionate about it

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I have read that there was a propagandized version of Bushido code used on the Japanese population in WWII, and of course it permeated the military too. So as far as I know, *not* real Bushido.

This is correct.

The "bushido" put forth by the ultra-nationalists that led Japan to war was at best a bastardized version of what bushido actually was. The "bushido" used by them is to real bushido as Jim Jones's "Christianity" is to actual Christianity.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I have read that there was a propagandized version of Bushido code used on the Japanese population in WWII, and of course it permeated the military too. So as far as I know, *not* real Bushido.

This is correct.

The "bushido" put forth by the ultra-nationalists that led Japan to war was at best a bastardized version of what bushido actually was. The "bushido" used by them is to real bushido as Jim Jones's "Christianity" is to actual Christianity.

This is known as the "Not Really Us" defense...dancing away from accusations
Like the lovely Go-Go Girl below dancing away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Epabo ... 0&index=12

Sorry - but it's what it is

[Reg]

Nice clip... [&o] [&o] [:D]

[Big B]

Yeah... I love those long haired - min-skirt 60's girls too..... first love [:D]

ORIGINAL: Reg


Nice clip... [&o] [&o] [:D]

[JeffroK]

https://www.warbirdforum.com/bushido.htm

[crsutton]

You put too much in this code. In WWI Japan was a democracy and the liberal faction of the government was strong. Japan was also eager to be recognized as a proper world power and was courting the West, and in order to gain acceptance by the West adopted the same rules of war. By WWII the government was totalitarian with strong fascist undertones. Raging Jingoism and control by ultra rightest who rejected any sort of accommodation with the West meant an easy abandonment of anything Western, including Western rules of War. I don't really think the Code of Bushido had anything to do with this other than provide a tool for the ultra rightest to manipulate the populace and military. They made it what they wanted it to be to suit their own ideology. This is what this sort of government does.

[CT Grognard]

http://www.pacificwar.org.au/JapWarCrim ... rimes.html

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I have read that there was a propagandized version of Bushido code used on the Japanese population in WWII, and of course it permeated the military too. So as far as I know, *not* real Bushido.

This is correct.

The "bushido" put forth by the ultra-nationalists that led Japan to war was at best a bastardized version of what bushido actually was. The "bushido" used by them is to real bushido as Jim Jones's "Christianity" is to actual Christianity.

This is known as the "Not Really Us" defense...dancing away from accusations
Like the lovely Go-Go Girl below dancing away...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Epabo ... 0&index=12

Sorry - but it's what it is

No, not at all. Question: "Was it Bushido?" Answer: "No. It was BS that someone made up as an excuse and called it Bushido to sell it to people." In no way whatsoever does that answer in any way seek to excuse conduct.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No, not at all. Question: "Was it Bushido?" Answer: "No. It was BS that someone made up as an excuse and called it Bushido to sell it to people." In no way whatsoever does that answer in any way seek to excuse conduct.

My point Exactly - it's all BullShit to excuse abhorrent conduct... and if my language is too strong - compare that to the atrocities.

[LeeChard]

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: witpqs
No, not at all. Question: "Was it Bushido?" Answer: "No. It was BS that someone made up as an excuse and called it Bushido to sell it to people." In no way whatsoever does that answer in any way seek to excuse conduct.

My point Exactly - it's all BullShit to excuse abhorrent conduct... and if my language is too strong - compare that to the atrocities.

Well said.

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: spence

The Japanese Army in particular and the IJN (more occasionally than the IJA due to the circumstances of its combats) often treated its prisoners with less than whatever was written into "World Law" (the Geneva Convention).

Yet the IJA was heralded for its very civilized treatment of POWs during the Russo-Japanese War and in WW1.

In WW2 the IJA and to a lesser extent the IJN experimented (scientifically supposedly) on enemy POWs and by forcing them to perform militarily significant constructions (the Burma Railway cost 90,000 POWs AND just as many Thai citizens (theoretically IJ Allies).

I can't find much in the Code of Bushido that justifies the way the Japanese behaved towards their enemies. Can you?

nice expo; i was always wondering why The IJN attack at Guadalcanal; when USA forces landed at Lunga (with no opossition) i first thought that the Japan forces let them to build airfield and then take it; but second thoughts was that the HUNGRY let them the bushido code to attack as they did; everything was lost including food; may impossible to send food from Truk or from Homeisland ships due to blockade Guadalcanal from USA forces; so Hungry was the force to IJN forces to blow up the mind of the chiefs to practice the BUSHIDO.