Help Choosing an ACW Game

[Gerry4321]

Hello: Reading a book about Longstreet now and thought it might be nice to try a game. In WW II games I find it hard to follow the movements of troops (divisions, etc.) But in this book each division and brigade goes by the leader's name so it seemed to make more sense to me.

I am not knowledgeable about things like supply, manufacturing, etc. that I see in some games. And not sure I want to go to the level of detail in the John Tiller games.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Gerry

[elmo3]

Sounds like you want something more tactical if you don't like supply and manufacturing. You could check YouTube for videos on these games:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/50252 ... Civil_War/ nice graphics, lots of battles, not too detailed
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=501 lots of scenarios covering 5 battles, multiplayer option, expensive
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=505 regimental level, 25 scenarios, hex based wargame
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=635 just covers Gettysburg, randomized turn end, pretty simple rules

[mkr8683]

Check out our Civil War mod for SP:WaW and my Civil War mod for WinSPWW2. They don't completely satisfy but they never completely fail.

[TulliusDetritus]

AGEOD American Civil War 2 with the amazing CWDB Mod.

It's an operational game, not tactical.

[Gerry4321]

Thinking about your answers I wonder what a unit is in tactical ACW games? For example in tactical WW 2 games I think of squads as the unit and also individual tanks. I know you have platoons etc also but you can have counters for squads and half squads and individual MGs.

Is there a brigade-level game that takes care of supply etc. automatically?

From the Longstreet book it seems there was a lot of maneuvering of armies, sometimes to force a battle on a site of its choosing. Is that the operational or strategic level?

One other thing I should say is I cannot play real-time games, only some form of turn based.

Thanks.

[zakblood]

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=505

Brother against Brother: The Drawing of the Sword, sorts out the auto supply you ask for and is turned based

1st Battle of Bull Run/Battle of 1st Manassas, July 21, 1861
1st Manassas (9:20am Start)
1st Manassas (What if #1 - Sudley Springs Ford defended)
1st Manassas (What if #2 - Multi-pronged Union attack)
1st Manassas (Blackburn's Ford (small scenario))
1st Manassas (What if #3 - Blackburn's Ford (small scenario))
1st Manassas (2 Player only version)
1st Manassas (Mid-battle (12pm) scenario)
1st Manassas (Standard Scenario)

Battle of Wilson's Creek, August 10, 1861
Wilsons Creek (What if #1 - Single Union attack column)
Wilsons Creek (What if #2 - Sigel delayed)
Wilsons Creek (Mid-battle (7 am) scenario)
Wilsons Creek (Standard Scenario)

Battle of Mill Springs, January 19, 1862
Mill Springs (What if #1 - USA badly picketed)
Mill Springs (What if #2 - USA badly picketed (no rain))
Mill Springs (Mid-battle Scenario (Zollicoffer in peril))
Mill Springs (Standard Scenario)
Mill Springs (Standard Scenario (no rain))

Battle of Mill Springs, at Beech Grove Encampment
Mill Springs (Beech Grove) (What if #1 - Union attack) (Set on January 20, 1862)
Mill Springs (Beech Grove) (What if #2 - CSA attacks first)

Battle of Williamsburg, May 5, 1862
Williamsburg (What if #1 - Faster reinforcements)
Williamsburg (What if #2 - Improved defensive line)
Williamsburg (Hancock vs Early (small scenario))
Williamsburg (Hancock vs Early (STARTER SCENARIO))
Williamsburg (Standard Scenario)
Williamsburg (Standard Scenario) (no rain)

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Gerry4321

From the Longstreet book it seems there was a lot of maneuvering of armies, sometimes to force a battle on a site of its choosing. Is that the operational or strategic level?

One other thing I should say is I cannot play real-time games, only some form of turn based.

Thanks.

That's operational. Your forces will more or less follow your orders -you're an eboss-in-chief-: plenty of manoeuvres, flanking etc.

Remember the "more or less follow your oders". Plenty of variables that will derail your plan. A bit like the real world.

The fighting per se is abstract ie no tactical bloodbath (not my cup of coffee by the way).

edit: oops, no real time either, it's WEGO. Players (or player and AI) give orders and then after clicking on the end turn each force will try to do as per the plan. Two enemy forces could be converging, or diverging or follow parallel paths.

edit 2: sorry, re the supply, it's automatic, the game handles this.

[zakblood]

Brother against Brother: The Drawing of the Sword is a lot like that also, as they may follow your orders or not, same as you don't get at what unit to even fire at, as if they or the commander thinks otherwise, it will pick something else, same as any command you give it, as they each have there own command and tbh can do most of the things without you, your just the man in overall command, but that command message just doesn't always get through or listened to either tbh, so it's more of a general guideline you give which may or may not be put into action, as in real life, men and other commanders tend to do there own thing, as they only see what's in front and not the bigger picture, of your command view etc

all of the games mentioned are good to great in there own way, so i'd say you can't go much wrong with anyone of them tbh

[rico21]

As you are a friend Gerry, I answer your post to said you than I don't know.

[zakblood]

helpful as ever rico21[:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: zakblood
The Drawing of the Sword is a lot like that also, as they may follow your orders or not, same as you don't get at what unit to even fire at,

But if I well understood, it's all about battles (tactical). What happens before the engagement is absent. The operational part that is.

[zakblood]

sort of, as you don't start some of at the battle, and have to march to get there, or sort out a given proportion of your units to a given place, where the battle is or will be taking place, so planning, moving supply and getting into place is part of the game, in some of the battles, but yes not all.

Gettysburg: The Tide Turns, is also like this, while some are pure battles, others are getting to a given place and then starting a battle, how you get there and by which way or even starting in where it should have been in history, is your choice, like in both game, a given amount of freedom is given so you can do it anywhere, but you may loose the battle in the end if a given result isn't achieved etc

but yes i get your point also.

i was just making the point that this part is in both game

there was a lot of maneuvering of armies, sometimes to force a battle on a site of its choosing

[Gerry4321]

ORIGINAL: rico21

As you are a friend Gerry, I answer your post to said you than I don't know.

Rico, shouldn't you be doing something else right now?

[Gerry4321]

Thanks everyone for the detail.

[Will_L]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

AGEOD American Civil War 2 with the amazing CWDB Mod.

It's an operational game, not tactical.

How is this mod vs. the AI from either side?

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Will_L

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

AGEOD American Civil War 2 with the amazing CWDB Mod.

It's an operational game, not tactical.

How is this mod vs. the AI from either side?

The scripts seem to be working. Not the state of the art but playable (if you're not very exigent). Said this, I never try to break the AI and try to move along historical lines (more or less).

There are two classic first moves I always do (PBEM and AI, as Union; never played as the South so I can't tell). I charge like a crazy rhino and try to grab West Virginia and Missouri. In the former there's that poor soul Floyd something. I never fail to kick him out (PBEM included)

Missouri is 50% - 50%.

With this mod the miserable Floyd something somehow managed to more or less stop me. Maybe because McClellan was the boss of that horde.

You certainly can give it a try if you have the game. I find the game more vivid, with many more toys.

[rico21]

I remember this part in which I had stopped the southerners before they took Washington. Then I made a turning west to cut the South in two with Sherman. I was stopped by the Mississippi. I never managed to cross. I abandoned the game because the abstract system of battle resolution annoyed me.
But I always wondered, what would have happened if Sheman cut the South in two?

[Will_L]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: Will_L

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

AGEOD American Civil War 2 with the amazing CWDB Mod.

It's an operational game, not tactical.

How is this mod vs. the AI from either side?

The scripts seem to be working. Not the state of the art but playable (if you're not very exigent). Said this, I never try to break the AI and try to move along historical lines (more or less).

There are two classic first moves I always do (PBEM and AI, as Union; never played as the South so I can't tell). I charge like a crazy rhino and try to grab West Virginia and Missouri. In the former there's that poor soul Floyd something. I never fail to kick him out (PBEM included)

Missouri is 50% - 50%.

With this mod the miserable Floyd something somehow managed to more or less stop me. Maybe because McClellan was the boss of that horde.

You certainly can give it a try if you have the game. I find the game more vivid, with many more toys.

Thanks Tullius, definitely going to give this mod a go and play both sides to explore it.
I do much the same in Missouri & WVA, bringing Sumner down from Iowa via river and sending Lyons to Rolla to get the depot
then building up and moving on in October when divisions can be made.
In WVA I send Patterson's force with Mansfield to occupy/attack Floyd and keep 3 brigades (each with a pair of Generals,
a 3 element infantry unit and an element of cavalry in them) in towns north of the Ohio River to chase off the Rebel units
that keep dancing back and forth, later in 1861 I send them across the river to occupy the towns in WVA.