Looking for Soviet production screenshots/data for industry analysis

[EwaldvonKleist]

Hi,
I am looking for data regarding armaments and supply production by heavy industry factories.
If you are interested, please PM or E-Mail me over the user page.

The goal is to determine the minimum amount of heavy industry and armaments the Soviet player needs for his conduct of war.

Necessary for the analysis is the scenario name, current turn number, the current supply and armament stocks and their total production from scenario begin to the current turn. A screenshot of the production screen showing the circled data is fully sufficient.
If you on top also have the corresponding event file, it is welcome as well.

Of special value is data from different points in the same game. Even if the focus is on the 1941 campaign, data for other campaigns is welcome as well.

The data will be analyzed by Telemecus, if it is from ongoing games, it will of course be treated confidentially.
If there are results of value, the results of the analysis will be shared with you and the community of course.

Thanks you

(special thanks to the players who have already sent in data).

[EwaldvonKleist]

Still looking for data (screenshots are sufficient now, saves aren't necessary anymore). Please contact me if you are interested by PM or E-Mail, I will then send you my E-Mail.

[GamesaurusRex]

For the GC:
My guess as to the ultimate answer you are looking for is 197 HI.
Maybe ~288 ARM.

[EwaldvonKleist]

How did you determine those numbers? If they are based on a game, would you mind sharing the data with me?

[No idea]

Didnt Pelton made some calculus a few years ago? Iirc he said at least around 200 HI and 290 Arm points wer needed. And vehicles really helped to make soviet army 2.0. But this was two years ago, iirc

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: No idea

Didnt Pelton made some calculus a few years ago? Iirc he said at least around 200 HI and 290 Arm points wer needed. And vehicles really helped to make soviet army 2.0. But this was two years ago, iirc

Theses values maybe were ok at a time (i do not know), but they are greatly exagerated now.
For example 290 Arm points is huged and you will end with so many unused points. My guess is around 200 is enough.

There are hardcoded mecanism that prevent you to built too many Arm Expansive items like artillery even if you swim in arm points so stocking spare arm points have no use.

For HI the value looks still right. (Around 180 HI is my guess).

Of course it is only my guessing and not data analysis so take them with a grain of salt.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

How did you determine those numbers? If they are based on a game, would you mind sharing the data with me?

These numbers are strictly my subjective opinion from playing the GC repeatedly on the Russian side over the last 5 years.
They are the lowest numbers I have experienced so far that seemed to keep up with replacement of losses and prosecution of the the Russian offensive, although in a current game I am in danger of testing an even lower level. The minimum level possible seems to me highly variable because of different player approaches to executing Russian strategy. Decisions regarding unit types produced, arms ratios preferred, movement decisions affecting truck use, and production choices in general are unique to each player and will result in different minimum levels of sustainable supply required to support a long term Russian drive to Berlin by 1945. Others who know more efficient Russian approaches may be able to justify lower numbers.

[topeverest]

I have a tracking excel file since I started my game

Sent U a PM - my file is in excel and need to send by email.

[topeverest]

Here is a current screen shot for turn 160 scenario 1

I always assumed that as a newbie, I saved too many ARM points or I didn't spend the APs to slow them down.
I didn't ever think that there were too many.

The next time I play Russians and assuming this accumulation doesn't move, I have long since calculated the approximate amount of ARM pt to save

[topeverest]

HAHA!

I saved 349 ARM pt and that was a big mistake. I should have concentrated on other things...that I ended up losing

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

ORIGINAL: No idea

Didnt Pelton made some calculus a few years ago? Iirc he said at least around 200 HI and 290 Arm points wer needed. And vehicles really helped to make soviet army 2.0. But this was two years ago, iirc

Theses values maybe were ok at a time (i do not know), but they are greatly exagerated now.
For example 290 Arm points is huged and you will end with so many unused points. My guess is around 200 is enough.

There are hardcoded mecanism that prevent you to built too many Arm Expansive items like artillery even if you swim in arm points so stocking spare arm points have no use.

For HI the value looks still right. (Around 180 HI is my guess).

Of course it is only my guessing and not data analysis so take them with a grain of salt.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Thank you for the screenshot topeverest!

Your resource factories easily support your HI factories which in turn easily support the rest of the economy, which should produce more than your army needs at that time, maybe except for a few edge case. So you have no real bottleneck in your industry.
As you said yourself, some of the rail cap used for Arm points/HI could have been used at some point to move around troops or to save special factoreis (aircraft, tanks etc.), and to find out how much you can cut the Arm/HI branch is the goal here (I will do the calculations once my exams are over in 1 1/2 week).

I have long since calculated the approximate amount of ARM pt to save

So you did your own calculations based on your data? What were your results? Note you can not only reduce arm evac, but also HI evac.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: No idea

Didnt Pelton made some calculus a few years ago? Iirc he said at least around 200 HI and 290 Arm points wer needed. And vehicles really helped to make soviet army 2.0. But this was two years ago, iirc

Was Loki that came up with those number

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: No idea
And vehicles really helped to make soviet army 2.0. But this was two years ago, iirc

Was Loki that came up with those number

The vehicles thing really does need to be revisited as so much has changed there. I think some of the lend lease numbers have been increased in later years - a lot. So some of that wisdom I suspect may have to change on vehicles.

AFAIK loki100 was the main originator of the numbers. And as a profesional economist in real life he had the qualifications to do them [:)]

[Icier]

Not to sure how accurate this is but here is an earlier post by Klydon.

Russians may want to check this list when trying to figure out what to move when it comes to factories that produce a specific item (IE tank or aircraft factory). Most will convert over, but some don't and will shut down at some point, so no need to move them in most cases.

Aircraft:

Kharkov: Su-2 (shut down 12/41)
Moscow: Mig 3 (shut down 12/41)
Gorky: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Saratov: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Taganrog: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Leningrad: Yak 6 (shut down 7/43)

Vehicles:

Leningrad: BA-10 Armored car (shut down 9/41)
Gorky: ZiS30 (shut down 10/41)
Kulebaki: BA-20 Armored car (shut down 5/42)
Gorky: T70 (shut down 12/43)
Kirov: T70 (shut down 12/43)




< Message edited by Klydon -- 5/12/2011 1:10:04 AM >

[topeverest]

The more I look into this problem, the less I understand it. B my calculations I should be producing more elements per turn.


I don't know why more supplies arent consumed in production. Only 64K used this turn in production. I have 3.3M points of supply stores. I must assume that the 90% consumption rate in production is no longer valid.

[Simon Edmonds]

Ewaldvonkleist. Have you read "The soviet economy and the red army 1930 - 1945" by Walter Dunne?

[EwaldvonKleist]

@Simon Edmonds: I am looking for data about the Soviet war economy INGAME, not as it was historically.
I recall reading some chapters of a book about Soviet war economy in a library, not sure if it was that one.

@Topeverest:
Supply consumption: Your industry (armaments, aircraft, vehicles (trucks), ground elements (AFV etc.)) needs 65k supplies when running at full steam. It simply can't use more supplies. You have allot of steel, but not enough tank factories to use it.

The more I look into this problem, the less I understand it. B my calculations I should be producing more elements per turn.

Please specify your question.