AT Artillery Brigade question

[D511]

Hello all!
can anybody say what is the game role of a AT Artillery Brigade? what is this type of unit exactly doing in terms of game mechanics?
may be it is cost extra MP for enemy tank units to move in it ZoC or take additional damage to enemy tanks?
thank you! )

[Telemecus]

First stab at an answer - but probably others have to confirm.

AT Artillery Brigades have no special abilities but are like any other on map unit. Other units also have anti tank guns in their ToE, but AT tank brigades have a greater proportion of them in their ToE. When there is a combat resolution elements from each side are matched up (randomly?) - but as AT tank brigades have a greater proportion of AT guns there is a greater chance they will match up with any AFV elements from the other side. When AT guns match up with AFVs on the other side in a battle a greater number of AFVS get damaged or destroyed.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: D511

Hello all!
can anybody say what is the game role of a AT Artillery Brigade? what is this type of unit exactly doing in terms of game mechanics?
may be it is cost extra MP for enemy tank units to move in it ZoC or take additional damage to enemy tanks?
thank you! )

Useless on map units, imo. Tanks is something the german player never runs out of, so destroying some more tanks wont make a difference. I use them to dig in 41 when every unit is critical.

[thedoctorking]

I'm playing a game as the Germans in 1942, and I am quite short of tanks. I probably need about 800 tanks right now (September 1942) and my summer offensives were quite hampered by tank shortages. So yes, the Germans can run out of tanks.

[Telemecus]

The number of extra tanks you could get with AT brigades would mean they are not worth creating them. And their incremental success can only be noticed over dozens of turns. The Axis will never have enough tanks to fill their scenario given units (AFAIK) but not sure they would notice AT brigades making a significant difference. The best way to stop a tank is still with another tank.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I'm playing a game as the Germans in 1942, and I am quite short of tanks. I probably need about 800 tanks right now (September 1942) and my summer offensives were quite hampered by tank shortages. So yes, the Germans can run out of tanks.

Have you lost some panzer units?

[thedoctorking]

I had a panzer division killed in 1941. I also had a panzer division routed in summer 1942 and it lost most of its tanks. Plus we got hammered big time during the winter.

I'm losing - a more experienced opponent and this is the first time I've played the Germans. Learning a lot, though. I'm interested to see how effective the Russian offensives are. But I imagine Stalin's boys are going to be meeting the Yankees along the Seine instead of the Elbe.

[56ajax]

In the first few turns the Soviet AT Brigades are durable in that they retreat rather than route. So they are ok for road block duties. I have seen a suggestion that you use them to garrison the Finnish frontier, but that was in the days where the Frontier could be held.

I think they are useless in destroying German tanks (except for captured T34s) so i wouldn't bother creating any new ones except if you have excessive elements in the pool.

[Crackaces]

One problem I see consistently in the discussions and that is losses extend through 3 turn phases. First , the actual combat phase which has some retreat losses. Then the losses that are accounted for during the logistics phase. So I have combat results with 10 AFV’s killed but after the logistics phase the damaged AFV’s were scraped resulting in 50 tanks total lost. So why is this significant? Because simply getting a result on an AFV gives a chance for damage or being scrapped. Every single encounter provides some probability.

The key is deploying to support your forces likely to be engaged by armor. Why defense? A dig in unit supported by a SU gets the fort protection value .. now you are getting free shots at AFV’s that over time accumulate.

As a German fanboy I would I know ? I use this strategy vs the Soviets with success draining tanks from Brigades. <smile> Jgd Pz I do not do well vs anything but everything counts and I see damaged .. and then less tanks ..