Fighting on as Soviet Union

[elxaime]

In PBEM, it seems quite common as Allies for the Soviet Union to lose all of the three major cities (Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad) against an experienced opponent. Just curious as to what success people have had fighting on. Or when you have lost all three, is it best to concede? I realize other factors can affect the overall state of the war, but assume an otherwise standard state of things on other parts of the map.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: elxaime

In PBEM, it seems quite common as Allies for the Soviet Union to lose all of the three major cities (Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad) against an experienced opponent. Just curious as to what success people have had fighting on. Or when you have lost all three, is it best to concede? I realize other factors can affect the overall state of the war, but assume an otherwise standard state of things on other parts of the map.

If you have a firm hold on Egypt or London and that the Russian army is still strong, fight on!

If not... well, you ain't have much longer to play anyway. :0)

[elxaime]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

If you have a firm hold on Egypt or London and that the Russian army is still strong, fight on!

If not... well, you ain't have much longer to play anyway. :0)

Thanks! It is easy to forget that the Russians lost Moscow to Napoleon in 1812, but ended up in Paris two years later.

[jjdenver]

I think once those 3 are lost even if allies have London and Egypt it's over. Maybe it's my poor play but I don't have a lot of success getting ashore and staying ashore in Europe as the Western Allies. The Germans can quickly operate an HQ, some air, some panzers, and kick the allies back off the beach in a few turns. Once Germany has those 3 cities in SU, it's even easier for them to spare the troops to beat the allies off the beach head they have taken. I think the game gets quite boring really at that point with the Germans just knocking allies back out of wherever they have landed (south France, north France, Sicily, Greece, etc) then rinsing and repeating the next time it happens. The power of air and tanks and the ability of the Germans to operate an infinite number of troops per turn (imo there should be a max on op movement - maybe 3 units per turn or something like that) makes it almost impossible(?) for allies to get ashore and stay ashore in 42 and 43.

[Taxman66]

How much of a commitment are you coming ashore with and which summer are you doing it?

If you can't commit a very large invasion, it may be better to go a more historical route and clean up North Africa first. The Axis can't just operate units back to push you off. Once established go after Italy. This doesn't require loads of land units as the boot is narrow.

I don't like the idea of landing in France as the Allies until I know I have at least air equality. And if I have HQs dedicated to supporting US and UK air units and Germany doesn't (or not enough) then the Allies will come out ahead eventually. Additionally if you out number the Axis air units (even if they are still ahead in tech) you can directly target the air units and/or the HQs supporting them.

The allies can afford high near equal MPP air war attrition far better than the Axis can.

[sPzAbt653]

The power of air and tanks and the ability of the Germans to operate an infinite number of troops per turn ...

Your Strats can offset those advantages. You should have a bunch of them in the UK and with them you can reduce the supply levels of all the towns in the target area. This reduces the Germans effectiveness, plus keeps them from operating units into the area.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

The power of air and tanks and the ability of the Germans to operate an infinite number of troops per turn ...

Your Strats can offset those advantages. You should have a bunch of them in the UK and with them you can reduce the supply levels of all the towns in the target area. This reduces the Germans effectiveness, plus keeps them from operating units into the area.

The Allies should have a formidable air force (w/HQs)by the time they invade France. I find it important to time the attack in the Spring so the weather is on your side. sPz Strat point very important. Use the Strategic bombers to reduce closest cities so the Axis cant operate troops close to your landing area and keeps supply low.

[Harun]

I have not personally done this yet, but rail lines are what allow op moves, so if you could remove the rail lines at certain junctures, they can't move past those, no?

My thought was if Vichy exists, Spain only has the one rail line through Bordeaux. quite a choke point.

[Taxman66]

You dont target the rail lines directly. You have to reduce town/city to 4 or lower to prevent units from being able to operate to or through the town/city

[Harun]

Thanks for the tip!

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
If you can't commit a very large invasion, it may be better to go a more historical route and clean up North Africa first. The Axis can't just operate units back to push you off. Once established go after Italy. This doesn't require loads of land units as the boot is narrow.

Italy seems easier said than done. The Axis usually has every port city garrisoned. Airbases are hard to work with since you only have 5 supply islands to use Sicily possibly, Sardinia, Corsica possibly within range of most of Italy.

Are you landing on the shore and killing a unit garrisoning a city successfully? I haven't tried that - it seemed too risky to land out of supply on the shore with shaky air cover. I usually take Sicily and Sardinia then just stare at Italy - it seems a bridge too far. How are you managing it?

[Taxman66]

Taking North Africa puts a big crimp in Italian moral, which makes their units weaker. Sicily is eithin range of Tunisia for air, and Sardinia is a good air base as well. Sicily has the advantage of more big morale hits against Italy.

Lastly, invest in Amphib warfare. At level 3 and up you will start doing real damage with amphib attacks.

[sPzAbt653]

Plus, same as France, don't forget your Strats. Three to four of them in Tunisia can destroy the Axis Supply situation in Italy.

[Titan]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Plus, same as France, don't forget your Strats. Three to four of them in Tunisia can destroy the Axis Supply situation in Italy.

Whats Strats?

[sPzAbt653]

I didn't make it up, I saw others saying it, so I used it ! I thought it was common lingo for SC.

Strategic Bombers.

[Taxman66]

1. Remove entrenchment with bombers
2. Attack with Amphibs (only limit here is the number of Amphibs you have).
3. Land unit next to target (you can even move 1 hex too) and attack again.
Repeat with another Amphib if defending unit survives.
4. Save 1 Amphib to land/take taget hex (i e. Port).

If you can afford the potential return fire you can soften up the defenders morale and readiness with battleships. Dont bother with level 0 naval weapons, and works best at level 2 (you'll take less damage too).

[Taxman66]

Some ports are trickier (e.g. Tripoli) as they are inland and can't be attacked by Amphibs or Battleships. Not likely to take them this way (particularly if not using air to remove entrenchment) unless the defending unit is a lowly un upgraded Garrison. Even then might take 2 good units (Armies or tanks) to kill it in 1 turn.

[LordOfPants]

Yeah, you have to be use combined arms to make effective amphibious assaults. Paratroops, single-corps landings, strategic bombers, and naval bombardment can isolate an area so that they can't operate into it, while you can build up. Hitting port cities heavily lets you take them in a turn, with naval bombardment, bombers, carriers, and those free amphibious attacks you can do a lot of damage in one turn. Also remember that you can land transports at a port with less than 5 strength, you just have to sit your transport in the port for 1 turn instead of immediately landing.

[DerJager]

I have always found the Axis position to be harder to play. In listening to these conversations, it sounds like the Axis dominates the game.

[Elessar2]

I'll just note in his last game as Axis, Sugar allowed the Allies to take the whole of France utterly unmolested, took his own sweet (heh) time operating things back-and pushed them all back into the sea in like 5 turns.