Canadian campaign????????

pops · Post by **pops** » Thu Nov 02, 2000 9:45 pm

Puleeeeease!
If anyone of you fine fellers could make one I'd (we'd) be most eternally grateful!!!!!!!

Mr.Ed · Post by **Mr.Ed** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 12:06 am

Didn't the Canadians play more of a support role for the British, I mean they had some glory like in Ortona but did they really have there own campaign without the British?

McGib · Post by **McGib** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 12:36 am

We sure did Mr Ed. The Canadian Army was on the right flank of the allied armies, advancing up the european coast. The Canadian Army liberated Holland. One of the more well known campaigns for the Canucks was the Scheldt Estuary, just west of Antwerp, clearing it allowed the allies to use the port without exposing ships to german gunfire.

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McGib
Ready Aye Ready

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:12 am

And lets not forget The D-Day Dodgers. The Canadians in Italy, 1943-1945. Very brutal for the Canadians.

Tankhead

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Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://tankhead.home.icq.com

Fabs · Post by **Fabs** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:43 am

The Canadians fought in independent Canadian formations. They were first class troops, arguably more aggressive than their British counterparts.

There is some controversy as to the quality of their high level commanders.

They fought hard and bloody battles both in Sicily, Italy and in Normandy/North West Europe.

They are represented separately in SPWAW, and there is no reason why they should not have a campaign of their own. I for one would welcome it.

It would be good if there were more Canadian scenarios, too.

Some of the battles fought by Canadians with distinction would be difficult to represent in SPWAW, because they were fought over extremely rough mountainous terrain.

The action fought by the Hasty Pees against 15th Panzergrenadier Division at Valguarnera and Assoro is a case in point. There is an extremely good account of these actions in Farley Mowat's book, "And no birds sang" (alas, no maps...).

Even the Granmichele ambush, which has been re-created for SPWAW, would in reality need more and steeper elevation levels.

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Fabs

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:52 am

And here a song the Canadians sang in sunny Italy.

Sung to the tune of their favorite, "Lili Marlene" it was entitled,
"We Are the D-Day Dodgers"

We are the D-Day Dodgers, out in Italy,
Always on the vino, always on the spree.
Eighth Army skivers and their tanks,
We go to war, in ties and slacks,
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.

We fought into Agira, a holiday with pay;
Jerry brought his bands out to cheer us on on our way,
Showed us the sights and gaves us tea,
We all sang songs, the beer was free,
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.

The Moro and Ortona were taken in our stride,
We didn't really fight there, we went there for the ride.
Sleeping 'til noon playing games,
We live in Rome with lots of dames.
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.

On our way to Florence, we had a lovely time,
We drove a bus from Rimini, right through the Gothic Line.
Then to Bologna we did go,
We all went swimming in the Po,
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.

We hear the boys in France are going home on leave
After six months' service, such a shame they're not relieved.
We were told to carry on a few more years,
Because our wives don't shed no tears,
We are the D-Day Dodgers, in sunny Italy.

We are the D-Day Dodgers, way out in Italy.
We're always tight, we cannot fight.
What bloody use are we?

Tankhead

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Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://tankhead.home.icq.com

Mr.Ed · Post by **Mr.Ed** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 3:48 am

Yes I guess you're right but what I meant is didn't the Canadian's recieve their orders from the British? I know I'm going to get flamed for this but it seems to me that Canadian people claim they did alot more than they actually did. Hey don't get me wrong the U.S.A. does it too though. I guess every country does it.

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 4:03 am

The comment about higher Canadian command does have some merit, but it applies as well to all the Allied higher command. The worst offender was, undoubtably General Crearer (to whom political perceptions and promotion meant more than lives) who pushed hard for the Dieppe raid (Now there's and assault scenarion for the truly masochistic!!)

Other Generals were much better. Andy McNaughton was a fine commander with an artillery background and good experience. He developed and coordinated a system of flash spotting and sound ranging during the first world war that resulted in very effective counter-battery fire for the assault on Vimy Ridge (Battle of Arras, April 9, 1917).

Another good general (& arguably Canada's best in WW2) was Lieutenant-General G.G. Simonds. Highly thought of by the British High Command & the officer responsible for the development of the "Kangaroo" (the first true armoured personel carrier) developed for and first used in Operation Totalize, August 7, 1944.

Bonzo

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Drake · Post by **Drake** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 4:09 am

Originally posted by Mr.Ed:

Yes I guess you're right but what I meant is didn't the Canadian's recieve their orders from the British? I know I'm going to get flamed for this but it seems to me that Canadian people claim they did alot more than they actually did. Hey don't get me wrong the U.S.A. does it too though. I guess every country does it.

So what do that have to do with the Canadians haveing their own campaign?

Their were a number of british units under the commmand of the 1st canadian army two along with a polish armoured division. Do this in some way invalite the fighting they did?

I think what the canadians did for such a small nation in WWII is outstanding. They ended the war with one of the larges navies in the world and the number of troops they pervided to the war is outstanding.

rexmonday · Post by **rexmonday** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 4:35 am

You can take one of the current campaigns (eg. Utah to Rhine) and go into the campaign editor, and I believe it is as simple as changing the nation flag to change the core nationality. AUX forces and support will probably remain as US. I haven't tried it myself, but maybe it will do in the meantime?

thor · Post by **thor** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:04 am

If you did the number crunching you would see that Canada's commitment in WWII far exceeded many of the so called "MAJOR" nations. Of course this is on a per capita basis.

You should also look at Canada's production numbers and you would see that if anything Canada is underrated by most historians.

Another Crazy Canuck

[This message has been edited by thor (edited November 02, 2000).]

M4 Jess Housley · Post by **M4 Jess Housley** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:18 am

I'll take that callange... Cans, comming up,
start in say... 1943?... 10 scenarios? All med size maps?? I love it !

M4

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 5:52 am

Since you are taking it, I'll give it to you Jess.

The Canadians performed admirably in WW2, beginning at Dieppe (42) through to the end.

I've always had the highest regards for the Canucks and felt that they have never gotten their just recognition for their heroic fighting in Western Europe.

Their fighting from Juno on to Caen and beyond would make an EXCELLENT campaign.

If I had a little more info on their activities from Sept 44 through May 45, I would have already done one.

So Jess, we'll count on you to do it.

I look forward to seeing it.

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

M4 Jess Housley · Post by **M4 Jess Housley** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 6:10 am

Thank you Wild Bill... I'll try to live up to your teachings... but you are right.. Sword to Caen and be-yound...

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M4 Jess Housley · Post by **M4 Jess Housley** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 6:12 am

Or was that Juno... hmmm LOL... guess I hace some reading to do ! K-boom !

M4

Toey · Post by **Toey** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 8:12 am

Didn't WB do an article on a Canadian Tank Company that attacked the wrong hill neat Caen and were surrounded by Jerries?

That would make an interesting battle.

Tankhead · Post by **Tankhead** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 8:19 am

Hi All!

A Canadians campaign in Italy would also be great Wild Bill "hint, hint"

. 1943-1945 very hard fighting in very rough terrain and weather.

Tankhead

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Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://tankhead.home.icq.com

[This message has been edited by Tankhead (edited November 02, 2000).]

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 8:47 am

Feel free to call on me for info on the Canadian campaign. I've got a copy of the official history - 3 volumes, 550-600 pages per vol, lots of maps.

Vol 1 - Hong Kong (got our butts kicked there), Aleutians (there's a forgotten battleground, fighting the Japanese in the snow), France 1940 (as British pulled out at Dunkirk, the pushed others in at Brest, including Canadian 1st Brigade) & Dieppe.

Vol 2 - Canada in Italy 43-45

Vol 3 - Northwest Europe 44-45

Bonzo

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com