Combat Conundrums

[EarlyDoors]

I don't understand why my UK sub would lose this engagement

[Sugar]

Low readiness and no xp, other than the carrier.

[EarlyDoors]

The readiness is only 30% less. That doesn’t seem to justify swinging from 1:5 to 4:1

[seydlitz22513]

In game terms when you make an attack on a Carrier you are not attacking a lone carrier, the carrier is deemed to have a destroyer screen protecting it since it is a high-value target. Which means you might get lucky and damage the carrier but the more likely outcome will be the destroyer screen will detect you before you can get into a firing position, and they will instead attack you.[;)]

[EarlyDoors]

Ok that makes sense but why is it not indicated in the attack and defended values?

[Kornstalx]

Was this a surprise encounter? As in, one of you stumbled upon the other and this is before you engage?

[EarlyDoors]

No I crept up on them and checked the expected combat result
Cursed
And moved 2 spaces away

[Kornstalx]

Was this in bad weather?

[Kornstalx]

Page 171 of the WaW manual has the actual formulas used to predict these numbers. I did the math quickly and what I came up with is almost the exact opposite of what I see in your screenshot (~1.5 attacker loss to ~3.5 defender loss). Weather is the only thing that should affect this since it's a naval engagement (no defense bonus out of port, no HQs). FWIW I've seen situations like this in game too (specifically vs Japanese Carriers as well) and always shrugged my shoulders. I have no clue man.

[BillRunacre]

Hi

One factor, and I must confess that I've just spent some time searching the Manual and I must have missed putting it in there, is that a Submarine that moves before attacking has its attack values halved. This was a change introduced many years ago (the summer of 2011) in the SC2 days and I can only apologize for having forgotten to add it to the Manual.

The reason for this is that submarines generally either attack transport (raiding) or they ambush enemy naval units, whereas otherwise they could sail around as if they were capital ships, which isn't what submarines tended to do.

Hopefully this helps explain the discrepancy in the combat predictions, and I am sorry that it didn't make it into the Manual before now as it would have saved you some time looking into this.

[balto]

Whoa, that is massive. Any chance this could be stickied or something like that.

Hi Bill.

[EarlyDoors]

Hmm, so they just have to lie in wait and hope a capital ship runs into them?

[Kornstalx]

Well that is generally what they were used for. You lie on convoy lanes or high traffic areas. It makes sense for balance and cost reasons anyway. If you want to engage enemy fleets on your own terms, invest in more expensive surface ships.

I was not aware of the sub penalty either, and this definitely will change things.

[EarlyDoors]

Now I understand how to use subs would like to say I like it.
It's a more patient thoughtful approach than charging gung ho trying to find a capital ship.

[Searry]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Hi

One factor, and I must confess that I've just spent some time searching the Manual and I must have missed putting it in there, is that a Submarine that moves before attacking has its attack values halved. This was a change introduced many years ago (the summer of 2011) in the SC2 days and I can only apologize for having forgotten to add it to the Manual.

The reason for this is that submarines generally either attack transport (raiding) or they ambush enemy naval units, whereas otherwise they could sail around as if they were capital ships, which isn't what submarines tended to do.

Hopefully this helps explain the discrepancy in the combat predictions, and I am sorry that it didn't make it into the Manual before now as it would have saved you some time looking into this.

Maybe you need to update the manual. That's huge!

[Steely Glint]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Hi

One factor, and I must confess that I've just spent some time searching the Manual and I must have missed putting it in there, is that a Submarine that moves before attacking has its attack values halved. This was a change introduced many years ago (the summer of 2011) in the SC2 days and I can only apologize for having forgotten to add it to the Manual.

Thanks for clarifying, Bill. In many hours of play I had figured it out on my own.