Questions re: Directive 21 scenario

[Hellen_slith]

Hello, everyone, I hope these questions are not too basic. I am on Axis Turn 11 in Directive 21, and have taken Minsk and am about to take Smolensk and Kiev with AGC. AG North is about 200 km from Leningrad. AG South is struggling (I got a late start down there having missed the first turn through oversight). Some questions:

1) the anti-tank units (the ones with a triangle and a dot) I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use those. They are all w/ the grey background and white center. Do those all attach to the grey units in AGC? How do you use those effectively in combat?

2) Similar question w/re/to the units with a --) (dash w/ a half-moon symbol, the ones that are attached to XXX Panzer HQ units). How are they best used in combat?

3) Overall combat planning question: what is the best way to plan your move, in so far as order of air attacks / artillery barrages / infantry etc. Is it better to plan artillery barrages for a few rounds, then follow up with "ground" attacks? Also, should I do airfield attacks first, or use bombers during a barrage phase, and then attack airfields later?

Thank you for your kind help! [&o]

"Hellen"


[&o]

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Hellen
Hello, everyone, I hope these questions are not too basic. I am on Axis Turn 11 in Directive 21, and have taken Minsk and am about to take Smolensk and Kiev with AGC. AG North is about 200 km from Leningrad. AG South is struggling (I got a late start down there having missed the first turn through oversight). Some questions:

1) the anti-tank units (the ones with a triangle and a dot) I'm having a hard time figuring out how to use those. They are all w/ the grey background and white center. Do those all attach to the grey units in AGC? How do you use those effectively in combat?

2) Similar question w/re/to the units with a --) (dash w/ a half-moon symbol, the ones that are attached to XXX Panzer HQ units). How are they best used in combat?

3) Overall combat planning question: what is the best way to plan your move, in so far as order of air attacks / artillery barrages / infantry etc. Is it better to plan artillery barrages for a few rounds, then follow up with "ground" attacks?

Also (4), should I do airfield attacks first, or use bombers during a barrage phase, and then attack airfields later?

Thank you for your kind help!
"Hellen"

Hello there Hellen; welcome to the site. You're among friends and no question is too stupid to ask. Let me see if I can't shed some light.
(1) What about the anti-tank units ( triangle with a dot ): I like to include at least one of these bad boys in the hexes adjacent to enemy tank units as a force multiplier for the defensive stack. Also, I'be been known to use them in a recon role in the less dangerous areas and they can convert hexes in the backfield as the advance moves on. They aren't very strong attacking or defending, usually, so I use them in a supporting role described above.

(2) The unit that looks like a "dash with a half moon": I'm guessing you're talking about the AAA units. I like to park those on the airfields that have planes on them. Or on important river hexes to protect the bridge. Or on a stack of arty to mitigate air strikes. Put them where you need to protect against enemy bombardment from the air.

(3) The best way to plan your move(s). I like to deploy the fighter aircraft first, to some really good spots up forward, to cover a lot of the enemy's territory if you're advancing or put the range arc just past the front lines if you're defending. Then I like to position the bombers so that they project an unbrella just past the front lines like the fighters if you're defending, or if you are advancing give yourself enough umbrella so that the moves of the unit(s) will be covered for the entire trip. It's perfectly okay to move aircraft multiple times during the turn. If I capture an airfield further forward then the ones I currently occupy then I'll usually move at least one fighter to the captured base, sometimes a bomber too. Then once the aircraft are taken care of, I like to move the arty where it can cover the ground combat units as well. It's perfectly okay to move the arty units multiple times during a turn so move them so that they provide the best coverage that they can as you move LCU's. Once the arty is in position, I usually move the strongest unit first to take the brunt of whatever you run into in a meeting engagement unless you don't know where they are in which case the recon units move out first and the rest of the formation follows closely behind ready to bail out the recon unit if it gets ambushed. Once the front line is formed and it's toe-to-toe fighting use the arty to support your front line units and yes, a few turns of bombardment can unentrench your target(s) and cause them to spend their supply defending. I usually use an arty unit for bombardment until it gets down to about 50% supply or turns yellow and then rest it. I get more hits that way.

(4) The use of bombers: Early in the game the air shock value of the Axis planes is somewhere around 120 and the soviet air shock is down around 5 so it behooves the Axis to destroy as many Soviet planes as possible from the start of turn 1. Airstrikes is the order of the day. Try to get as many airstrikes as you can because the early war period is your best time to evaporate them. Move your planes to reach as many of them as you can. And yes, the use of bombers to assist Land-based attacks is a good idea. I like to assign at least one bomber to each attack because I believe all avenues of attack that are possible should be used. Aircraft are a force multiplier. But before I do anything else I eliminate the Soviet air force as a threat I don't need.

[cathar1244]

(2) The unit that looks like a "dash with a half moon": I'm guessing you're talking about the AAA units.

I wonder if he meant rocket artillery units.

Cheers

[Hellen_slith]

Thank you, that is very helpful. Yes, I meant the rocket artillery, but it looks like I have managed to figure those out and incorporate them better. This last round of battles, I did significantly more damage for me! Thanks again!

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Hellen
Thank you, that is very helpful. Yes, I meant the rocket artillery, but it looks like I have managed to figure those out and incorporate them better. This last round of battles, I did significantly more damage for me! Thanks again!

Good for you, and sorry for missing your clues. I use rocket arty to back up a defensive position or adjacent to the biggest enemy infantry units there are on the front lines. Rocket arty is practically useless against armor.

[sPzAbt653]

Hitting 'U' when a unit is selected will bring up this report, and it tells you all about each unit and then you can better determine how to use it. Unit use will often vary from scenario to scenario.

The early versions of these PanzerJaeger [Anti-Tank] units were fairly useless against the T-34's and KV's. However, later in the game when they fill out with 75's and even 88's they become a necessary unit when defending against the mass Soviet tanks. Later the Elephants, Nashorns, JagPanthers and Tigers are contained in these types of units.

[sPzAbt653]

The Werfers were the mobile rocket launchers used by the Germans, and early in the war these were used as fire support for the fast moving units. Hit 'U' to bring up the Unit Report and you will see its particulars [equipment on the left, stats on the right]. This helps you decide how to use units.

An equipment with '0' of an item means it will gain this equipment at some point in the future, sometimes by event but usually as replacement. You can check your Inventory and Replacements screen to see when a type of equipment begins to arrive.

You can also click on the equipment line to bring up more detailed stats, although these are not scaled to the scenario as are the other stats you will see displayed [for example, on the right under Strengths].

[Hellen_slith]

Thank you. What is the purpose of the "Disband.#" units that have appeared in the major cities that I have captured? They have Soviet equipment in them. Am I supposed to disband them? Also, I noticed that a little factory icon has appeared next to the city of Gorki, does that mean it is producing replacements for the Soviets? Thanks again!

[sPzAbt653]

Yes, please disband any units named Disband, lol. I just looked thru a couple doc's I have here and for some reason don't see any mention of these. Hard to imagine this isn't documented so I must not have the proper doc's, but sorry if it isn't. Anyway, those units represent captured Soviet equipment that was repurposed by the Axis.

The characters near Gorky I think were a test to see how they looked that maybe we forgot about. I don't believe they represent anything in particular. The importance of locations is noted by the Asterisks around their names. This means that the Axis capture of such locations will reduce Soviet production.

[Hellen_slith]

Thanks again. I hope I'm not being too inquisitive. I haven't played TOAW in many years, and just got the new version 4. Thanks for the cool scenario.

The railroad repair people are very lazy, though. I am on turn 14, and the two Romanian units (together) have repaired only ONE hex so far. Usually, I get (at most) four or five hexes repaired in a turn, and there have been turns with no repairs done at all. Do I need to stack some SS units with them to get them to work LoL? I have tried embarking, disembarking, moving, not moving, stacking them together, keeping them apart ... they just don't want to do any repairs. Or very minimal. I think so far, six hexes is my record for RR repairs in a turn. Just bad dice rolls?

Anyway, thanks for the scenario! Enjoying it very much, I hope to play it through at a pace of at least one Axis turn per day. So far, I've gained Minsk, Smolensk, Kiev, Riga, and I'm knocking on the door at Leningrad. Odessa is about to give up, I see a lot of retreats from there. Going to have to rest the troops for a turn or two, though, supplies have just about run dry.

Thanks again for your kind reply!

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Hellen
Thanks again. I hope I'm not being too inquisitive. I haven't played TOAW in many years, and just got the new version 4. Thanks for the cool scenario.

The railroad repair people are very lazy, though. I am on turn 14, and the two Romanian units (together) have repaired only ONE hex so far. Usually, I get (at most) four or five hexes repaired in a turn, and there have been turns with no repairs done at all. Do I need to stack some SS units with them to get them to work LoL? I have tried embarking, disembarking, moving, not moving, stacking them together, keeping them apart ... they just don't want to do any repairs. Or very minimal. I think so far, six hexes is my record for RR repairs in a turn. Just bad dice rolls?

Anyway, thanks for the scenario! Enjoying it very much, I hope to play it through at a pace of at least one Axis turn per day. So far, I've gained Minsk, Smolensk, Kiev, Riga, and I'm knocking on the door at Leningrad. Odessa is about to give up, I see a lot of retreats from there. Going to have to rest the troops for a turn or two, though, supplies have just about run dry.

Thanks again for your kind reply!

D21 used to be my favorite scenario and then FITE2 came out and I'm loving it now. And you're right about the RR engineers. I've been stacking three or four of them together as a team on just four routes and I can't get them to repair anything much. My experience parallels yours. I considered breaking them into pieces and using those to repair the rails and much the same thing happens. The scenario is designed for the Axis to have supply troubles because they did in real life I guess. Anyway, I seem to have oodles more supply in FITE2 so far. I've never played FITE2 very far ( August '41 ) so I don't know what the winters are like but they are supposed to be brutal. I just finished my moves for Jonathan's game and it took me three days of off and on doing my moves. There's 1800+ Axis units alone. The Soviet side has at least the same number of units. There's 78 Axis aircraft units alone. I've always wanted to skip getting Leningrad and just drive due east for Moscow and taking Leningrad AFTER Moscow is captured. I'll have to try that against Jonathan.

[gliz2]

The thing with both FITE2 and D21 is that they have most of the things hard coded. Little to no surprises on the road.
I myself prefer historical probabilities (like winter 41/42 beimg a normal one not extreme or reinforcements arriving not on a specific turn). For example try to build a bridge in D21 or FITE2 which by the way was done historically.
I prefer FITE2 more as it gives more flexibility and reacher experience but it's a monster scenario.

And don't be shy asking questions. There are so many things I still don't fully grasp on IIWW scenarios and gameplay

PS. My advise is: use exploit tactics. That HQ or AT unit can do some reconnaissance. It's absurd but the game itself is absurd (hexes, turns, and chits shoving are not how it works in real life). So explore, exploit and have fun with it.

[Hellen_slith]

Thank you, that is encouraging.

I am trying now to close a pincer movement back of Kiev, using AG South to swing around and come up around the river around Kiev. There are only two good bridges across there, but my foot troops and that Panzer Army in South are very tired.

No use trying to just barge my way across that river right now, so I need to go around. We'll see Have taken the airfield @ Knusti, the one near Chemattsk. Trying to swing around that river now Elmer is not cooperating, he is throwing everything at me, railing in Airborne divisions to try to hold that line while he wheels everything back.

One of these days, I will figure out how to post pictures. Anyway, thanks again for your kind help! Sorry if I cannot remember the right names of the battles. TTYL! <H>

[sPzAbt653]

The railroad repair people are very lazy, though.

We all share your sentiment, but that is the way it was historically. The rail heads could not keep up with the advance and didn't reach the front line in some areas until the start of Case Blue in 1942.
So for history's sake, we have to put up with it. For what it's worth, I use the Bautrupp's stacked in three group's [one for each AG] and leave them embarked. Starting each turn I hit the '.' button to cycle thru and move them. As the scenario progresses things get even worse and I will knock it down from three stacks to two, and eventually to one [focusing on the areas of priority].

[Lobster]

The Germans had built the rail to Minsk by 5 July. Is that possible in the scenario? Just wondering. Supply trains also arrived in Minsk on the same day.

[sPzAbt653]

Easily figured out. 38 hexes to Minsk, possible 12 rail repairs per turn, turn 4 is July 2nd, turn 5 is July 6th.

[Hellen_slith]

Thank you for the encouragement. Now on Turn 24 (AXIS) AGC is only 200 km from Moscow ... thin Soviet lines, but Elmer is really giving me trouble, insofar as gathering partisans (?) in Pripyet Marsh ... I had three divisions of Panzers ready to go around Kiev, tried that, and Elmer pushed them back...has even got some recon going in the back of my lines, I had to turn a few infantry div. back to keep them from the railroads and supply lines ... all of my Engineers now are going backward, trying to shore up all the bridges I left behind.

Question: I am on Turn 24 (Axis) Sept. 3, 1940 ... multiple Resources have shown up. How do I line them up to keep a Supply Net going? I envision having at least one at the end of each rail heads ... but do I need to Dig them IN at end of turn, after moving them? Or keep them mobile supply points in "mobile"?

Thank you for your kind helps. PS: I am destroying each turn (via interdiction and airfield attacks) around 600+ to 700+ Soviet planes every turn .... Sovietts have lost around 600+> planes per turn, up to a gazillion aircraft loss, but they just keep coming. W ... T.... H????? Current Air Superiority is 36 to one, but they still keep coming. How do I gain total air superiority??

Thank you. H

[larryfulkerson]

....do I need to Dig them IN at end of turn, after moving them? Or keep them mobile supply points in "mobile"?

I've been just leaving them embarked in D21 but in FITE2 the engineer unit's attempt to repair the rail leaves it with 0 MP's and the unit almost never gets a chance to dig in.

How do I gain total air superiority??

Thank you. H

That's one part of the game that's practically a game in itself because of the tactics that the Axis can use to defeat the Soviets. Who am I trying to kid? The Soviet air force is always going to eventually win. There's no way around that fact. The goal of the Axis air force then, is to survive as long as possible. Use every possible advantage, make the fight as uneven as you can. In the early war period the Axis air shock is usually very high and the Soviet air shock is usually very low and that's one advantage that shouldn't be passed up. Put your fighters on three-dots and get into every fight you can. I've seen turns where the Soviets lose 400+ planes, fighters and bombers, and the Axis losses just 5 Me-109's. Do this as long as the air shock is so different. Do it as long as the losses aren't too alarming. Kill every Soviet plane you can reach. Get 'em all if you can. The longer you can maintain your AS higher than Elmer's the longer you can survive. But when Elmer's AS reaches parity or higher trim the ranges on your bombers so that they just cover your troops plus a little margin if you'd like, and move the fighters about 200Km further out than the bombers [toward the enemy] and maybe go to two-dots or toward the end of the war, one-dot and even consider pulling the whole air force back to Warsaw and save them for the final Soviet assaults in Germany. I donno about that period however, I've never gotten that far.

[larryfulkerson]

My advise is: use exploit tactics. That HQ or AT unit can do some reconnaissance. It's absurd but the game itself is absurd (hexes, turns, and chits shoving are not how it works in real life). So explore, exploit and have fun with it.

I concur. Don't be afraid to lose. Losing isn't earth shaking. I lose a lot but I'm having a lot of fun. And I LIKE to try things. See what works. If you lose just try something else. The main point is to have fun though.

The Germans had built the rail to Minsk by 5 July. Is that possible in the scenario? Just wondering. Supply trains also arrived in Minsk on the same day.

Yeah, there's 12 possible railroad repairs but I know from experience that you hardly ever get more than 2 or 3 successful repairs each turn. I'm always late getting to Minsk with the rails.

[Hellen_slith]

Another question: I am now on move 27 / mid-September 1941. During the Soviet's turn (the one following my turn 26, I guess that would be Elmer's move #26), I noticed quite a bit of difference in Elmer's behavior / strategy in the south.

I was wondering if some sort of event was triggered, or an objective changed for the AI, or what might have driven Elmer to go into such a flurry of retreat down there. FYI I finally made it well across the Dneper (beyond just a foothold...started to encircle most of his group that was down there, drove 40 km beyond Kiev, pushed through Chernassky, and the Rumanians also pushed up some 70 or so km beyond Odessa.)

Prior to this Elmer turn 26, it seemed that "he" was focused on railing as many reinforcements forward toward Kiev / Odessa area. Suddenly, those railroad cars seemed to start a massive evacuation eastward from the Odessa area, and most of the Savastopol (sp?) group moved north and seems to have started entrenching to keep me out of the Crimea (whereas previous, those units didn't seem to move much.)

Just wondered if there was some sort of "line" crossed that triggered something.

PS: I finally noticed that some of the Axis Engineer units DO NOT have any bridge repair capability ... only noticed when some of them WOULD NOT repair ... DOH!!!! Mistake? or are those just for river crossing? They seem to be identical to other Engineer units that DO have repair capability. Just curious.

Also...does that Soviet supply point out in the ocean next to Odessa EVER go away or change color? I think I am using version 4.2 of the scenario.

Thanks again!