New Supply Rules / Overextended Supply questions

[Zovs]

So I have a scenario I am continuing on from TOAW III. I converted and have been updating it for TOAW IV.

Up to this point all has been well and my initial play tests went fine allowing me to adjust the OOB's and formations.

But I just set all the supply points to a value (100, 75, 50, 25 and 5) and had set the Overextended value to 4. I also set the Supply Radius for both sides to 10 hexes and I set the Road Supply Radius to 4 for both sides. I am thinking I need to set the overextended supply to 0?

When I opened up my scenario in game mode, much to my horror all of both sides forces have combat values of 0 and 1 and they all are re-organizing (including the air). I suppose the easy fix would be to re-set all the supply points to 0 and forgot about Overextended. But that does not seem to be right.

Points, tips and tricks?

What I am I doing wrong?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Zovs
So I have a scenario I am continuing on from TOAW III. I converted and have been updating it for TOAW IV.

Up to this point all has been well and my initial play tests went fine allowing me to adjust the OOB's and formations.

But I just set all the supply points to a value (100, 75, 50, 25 and 5) and had set the Overextended value to 4. I also set the Supply Radius for both sides to 10 hexes and I set the Road Supply Radius to 4 for both sides. I am thinking I need to set the overextended supply to 0?

When I opened up my scenario in game mode, much to my horror all of both sides forces have combat values of 0 and 1 and they all are re-organizing (including the air). I suppose the easy fix would be to re-set all the supply points to 0 and forgot about Overextended. But that does not seem to be right.

Points, tips and tricks?

What I am I doing wrong?

Don, Don, Don. You need the supply points to be able to feed the units and the further apart the supply points are the bigger must be the road radius. The overextended value set to 0 means the units will hardly ever be unsupplied. Only when they park in a hex with 0 or less supply will they be unsupplied. I've seen scenarios that use this value. It's not weird. I think D21 uses 5 hexes of road radius. Try supply points of 100 each and see if that results in a value too high in the hexes. If so tweak them to taste. Let me know if this helps at all.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

When I opened up my scenario in game mode, much to my horror all of both sides forces have combat values of 0 and 1 and they all are re-organizing (including the air).

Sounds like you have a huge negative shock event for both sides.

[Zovs]

So as far as I can determine (all the Supply Points worked previously in my tests prior to me setting them to a value (they had nothing from the conversion of TOAW III), until I set the Supply Points to values such as 100, 75, 50, 25 and 5).

I have gone in and looked at a few scenarios that may use the 'New Supply Rules' and have seen this:

Barbarossa 41 ((Supply radius 4 only side 1))
Eastern Front 1941-1945 (Supply radius 3/3)
World at War 1939-1945 (Supply radius 12/12)
All three use roadSupplyRadius="4" (for both sides) and an extendedSupply="0" (for both sides).

Directive 21 1941-1945 (Supply radius 4/6) is the only one that shows a roadSupplyRadius="4" (for both sides) and an extendedSupply="2" and extendedSupply="5".

Which is not too different then my scenario.

Here are my settings for my scenario:

Axis Supply range set to 25 hexes
Allied Supply range set to 25 hexes
roadSupplyRadius="4" (for both sides)
extendedSupply="6" (for both sides)
Supply Points to values set to: 100, 75, 50, 25 and 5 (some the same for both sides but different values)

So here is some screen shots to help illustrate:

Situation Briefing #1

All looks normal to me.

Situation Briefing #2


News Summary #1

Everything seems fine here.

Units on map at start:

Note that all units for both sides are re-organizing and have attack defend values of 0 and 1 but are showing overextend supply status for some reason.

Units on map hidden at start, showing the Supply points and how the 'trace' supply is set to 'flow'.

Note that there is no values in any of the supply points hexes and this where I don't understand what is going on.

Unit Report:

Note it's showing re-organized, and overextend supply status even though it's supply is at 100%.
In the previous edition of this scenario (i.e. before I changed the Supply Points to 100, 75, 50, 25 or 5), this was never the case (i.e., all units were supplied and no re-org's).

In the game editor you can see I set various Supply Points to 100 for these Supply Points:


Lastly, this is a XML text file of my *.gam file showing that both force 1 and 2 have Supply set to a value(s).


But the new supply rules are not working correctly in my scenario with the above values.

So I am a little confused on what is wrong and why the supply is all gacked up now.

So any help is appreciated.

If need be an experienced scenario designer that would like to look at my scenario to help me would be appreciated. If the answer is not staring me in the face but very obvious to you and you can just point out my deficiency in understanding lol.

[Zovs]

One last thought, I have not yet run 'Automatic Ownership' since I converted it from TOAW III to IV. It seemed to work prior to that.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Zovs


Situation Briefing #2

It is just as I've told you in my post #3: You have a huge negative shock effect for both sides. Look at the shock values. (100 is neutral).

[Zovs]

So the:

Our Air Shock level is 100%
Their Air Shock level is 100%
Our Shock level is 0%
Their Shock level is 0%

Is set in the Event Editor:

<EVENT ID="63" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="150" TURN="1" NEWS="Axis Surprise Air Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="64" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="63" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Air Surprise ended"/>
<EVENT ID="65" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="130" NEWS="Axis Surprise Ground Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="66" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="65" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Ground Surprise ended"/>

When I first converted this scenario this did not happen. It was only after I set the Supply Point Values and Overextended values.

So I am still scratching my head. I was thinking that setting the Axis Shock level to 130 on turn 1 and setting it back to 100 on turn 4 was the way to proceed.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

So the:

Our Air Shock level is 100%
Their Air Shock level is 100%
Our Shock level is 0%
Their Shock level is 0%

Is set in the Event Editor:

<EVENT ID="63" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="150" TURN="1" NEWS="Axis Surprise Air Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="64" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="63" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Air Surprise ended"/>
<EVENT ID="65" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="130" NEWS="Axis Surprise Ground Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="66" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="65" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Ground Surprise ended"/>

When I first converted this scenario this did not happen. It was only after I set the Supply Point Values and Overextended values.

So I am still scratching my head. I was thinking that setting the Axis Shock level to 130 on turn 1 and setting it back to 100 on turn 4 was the way to proceed.

You have another event somewhere that sets them both to 0.

Edit: Actually that would be two events.

[Zovs]

Okay, well double checking the *.gam file shows no other events but those four I posted are the only ones showing up in the XML file (searching for 'case sensitive' "Shock").

I wonder if I need to change it from:

Code: Select all

<EVENT ID="62" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="130" NEWS="Axis Surprise Ground Attack"/> 

to:

Code: Select all

<EVENT ID="62" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Shock 1" VALUE="130" NEWS="Axis Surprise Ground Attack"/>

If that would cure it?

Still don't get why previously this was not issue until I messed with the supply points.

[Zovs]

No that is not the solution.

Here is my events for the Shock:

<EVENT ID="61" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Theater Option 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="61" NEWS="Initiate Operation Barbarossa"/>
<EVENT ID="62" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Remove zone 1" X="2" Y="3" TURN="1"/>
<EVENT ID="63" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="150" TURN="1" NEWS="Axis Surprise Air Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="64" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="63" EFFECT="Air Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Air Surprise ended"/>
<EVENT ID="65" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="62" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="130" NEWS="Axis Surprise Ground Attack"/>
<EVENT ID="66" TRIGGER="Event activated" CONTINGENCY="65" EFFECT="Shock 1" X="2" Y="3" VALUE="100" TURN="4" NEWS="Axis Ground Surprise ended"/>

So the ground and air shock are only set when the Axis player selects to take the theater option to initiate Operation Barbarossa.

Digging and adding a few more tasks such as:

<EVENT ID="112" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Shock 1" VALUE="150"/>
<EVENT ID="113" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="News only" X="2" Y="3" NEWS="Axis launches Fall Weiß - Shock = 150"/>
<EVENT ID="114" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Shock 1" VALUE="125" TURN="35"/>
<EVENT ID="115" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="News only" X="2" Y="3" NEWS="Axis prepares for Fall Gelb - Shock = 125"/>
<EVENT ID="116" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Shock 1" VALUE="115" TURN="40"/>
<EVENT ID="117" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="News only" X="2" Y="3" NEWS="Axis inital surprise begins to wear off - 115"/>
<EVENT ID="118" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="Shock 1" VALUE="100" TURN="62"/>
<EVENT ID="119" TRIGGER="Turn" EFFECT="News only" X="2" Y="3" NEWS="Axis inital surprise levels off - 100"/>

[Curtis Lemay]

Your Shock Levels are 0 for both forces. That can only be done by event. You must have such events. Look harder. Look in the actual Event Editor, not the xml files.

[cathar1244]

Zovs,

Map note. Poznan should be shown as fortified. The city was ringed by 18 forts as well as having a large central citadel. In 1945, the Red Army had to reduce the German garrison over an extended period of time.

Cheers

[Zovs]

Yeah, I am digging through the event editor engine and just not seeing any events that are setting the shock of any kind to 0.

[Zovs]

Plus the effective supply is at 0.

Scratching my head on this one. Prior to making the supply adjustments the scenario worked fine. Now the two issues seem to be supply and surprise.

I don't see any thing (off hand) in the in game editor, in the dump file I created, nor the XML file I generated.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Zovs,

Map note. Poznan should be shown as fortified. The city was ringed by 18 forts as well as having a large central citadel. In 1945, the Red Army had to reduce the German garrison over an extended period of time.

Cheers

Thanks for the tip!

As the game sits (and starts in 1939) I Pozan in controlled by the Polish (Allied) army and its at 18% entrenchment. That being said after your tip I set it to 100%.

[Zovs]

So none of that worked!

Ever since I switched this scenario to use on map Supply Points with values it has broken my scenario. Previously after the conversion all the Supply Points did not have a value.

I can see nothing in the Event Editor Engine that shows any Air or Ground Shock set to 0 but the scenario still thinks it is set to 0% after the Supply Changes.

I must be missing something really stupid but could use some help.

[Lobster]

You should probably make the scenario available so maybe Steve or someone could look at it. [;)]

[Zovs]

Okay Lobster, I don't mind doing that but its not 100% ready for prime time yet (I have set up for 9/39 - 1/43 for the Germans, CW, and Russians and to 6/45 for the US, need to expand out Germany, Russia and the CW, after I flush out the US I was going to hit the CW and then do the Germans and Russians from 1/43 to 6/45).

Steve, Bob or Lobster would you mind taking a look? I can send via email.

Thanks in adfance.

[sPzAbt653]

I can peek at it, my e-mail is over there <<< by my Real Name.

[Zovs]

Well folks sad news indeed. Steve is helping out, but it seems something maybe corrupt, its a shame, its so close but something is amiss.

I'll try to salvage it if I can, but I may end up going back to Steel Panthers after this one...man ...

I'll try a few more experiments...