Historical Naval Losses MWIF Turns and Named Ship Counters

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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Historical Naval Losses MWIF Turns and Named Ship Counters

Post by warspite1 »

So this is my attempt at creating actual ship losses in WWII in MWIF turns.

The list won't be perfect I'm sure (although should be pretty accurate for the named ships), but in so far as is possible I have checked and cross-checked what I can.

What this list doesn't convey of course, is the sense to which ships were not sunk but were removed from the order of battle (for various lengths of time) due to damage. This would be an interesting exercise in itself and would better illustrate perhaps the constraints that naval chiefs had to contend with.

In assessing losses I have not included ships under construction but lost due to overrun (the Soviets, and to a lesser extent the French, are particularly affected here). But will make mention of some ships depending on the % complete at the time of overrun.

What constitutes a 'lost' ship can also be open to interpretation. For the purposes of this exercise I have considered ships 'lost' if, despite being partially repaired, were never put to sea again. There are a number of ships that were sunk, raised, and used as AA or artillery platforms - but if not able to put to sea they are counted as lost here.

I would love to be able to add all warship types - but that is simply too much work - and for a strategic game of this sort, arguably not really necessary. So for that reason there are no loss figures for corvettes, minesweepers, minelayers, ASW trawlers, torpedo boats etc. Suffice to say there were a lot of losses of this type!

It would be useful to add merchant losses - even if just by tonnage and then put this into MWIF counter terms. Maybe that is something for the future. In the meantime, to ensure this gets finished, I want to keep it manageable and we shall see if I've achieved that goal when we get into 1942.....


SEP/OCT 1939

The game kicks off, as per real life, with an invasion of Poland.

Key Events:

Germany invade Poland
The Commonwealth and France declare war on Germany


Thanks to a pre-planned operation, most of the Polish navy either escaped to the UK (three destroyers and two subs) or was interned in Sweden (two subs) but the destroyer Wicher was lost to air attack.

The British submarine Oxley was lost to a blue on blue attack from another British submarine while on patrol off Norway.

U-12, U-40 and U-16 were lost to British mines in the English Channel. The remaining boats were sunk by British destroyers.

The British used their precious aircraft carriers to hunt for u-boats at the start of the war.... this didn't last long. Ark Royal was near-missed but HMS Courageous was not so lucky. At the start of the war the British only really had three useful carriers and one was gone within weeks...

The audacious raid on Scapa Flow by Prien's U-47 deserved more than the one battleship sunk. But sad though the death of 833 crew was, the loss of this elderly battleship was worth nothing more than propaganda value to the German war effort.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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NOV/DEC 1939

Key Events:

The Poles, abandoned by the Western Allies and stabbed in the back by the Soviets, surrender
The Phoney War or Sitzkrieg begins
The Soviet Union attacks Finland in what becomes known as the winter War. The weather means naval activity is strictly limited in this theatre.


The destroyer Duchess was lost in a collision with HMS Barham. Both Blanche and Gypsy were lost to German laid mines.

U-35 was lost to British destroyers and U-36 was torpedoed by a British submarine

Key Battles:
The Battle of the River Plate was fought off the South American coast. The pocket-battleship/heavy cruiser Graf Spee encountered a British cruiser force when her captain ignored orders and looked for battle. The heavy cruiser Exeter, and the light cruisers Ajax and Achilles - the latter a Kiwi ship - were out-ranged and out-gunned (in calibre not no. of guns) and took a battering from the German ship. But Graf Spee did not get off without serious damage. After putting into a neutral port, she was scuttled rather than face annihilation from the Allied ships heading to engage her.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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JAN/FEB 1940

Key Events:

Hitler gets lucky - the Phoney war continues only because the weather is too bad - but the German Army is still refitting after the Polish Campaign and were not ready for what would have likely been a frontal slog through Belgium in appalling weather.....
The Winter War drags on and both the Allies and Germany start eyeing up Norway.


The Soviets lost sub U-2 during the Winter War.

The two German destroyer losses were the result of friendly fire incidents that caused the ships to hit wander into British laid mine fields after being bombed by Luftwaffe aircraft.

British destroyer losses were from u-boats (Exmouth and Daring) and German laid mines (Grenville)

Submarine losses were as follows: Seahorse was sunk by German minesweepers while Undine and Starfish were brought to surface by depth charges. Starfish was scuttled and, although Undine was captured, she sunk before she could be towed to port.

One u-boat, U-54 was lost to British laid mines. U-15 was lost in a collision with a German torpedo boat. All other u-boat losses were caused by destroyers except U-55 which was lost by a mix of destroyers and a Sunderland flying boat.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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MAR/APR 1940

Key Events:

The Winter War finishes as the Finns sue for peace. For the Soviets it has been a salutary lesson
Both the Allies and the Germans bring their 'plans' over Norway to a conclusion. I say plans for the Western Allies but that would be a contradiction in terms. The Germans are not playing at war and launch Operation Weserubung that seeks to conquer Norway and Denmark


The Phoney War is over and losses now start to increase due to events in the North Sea and environs... something sorely missing in strategic games. The Germans attempted to land at 6 key points along the Norwegian coast, from Narvik to Oslo, while less is said about the British and French 'plan' altogether.

Key Battles:
The Kriegsmarine got very lucky. A combination of weather and poor Admiralty operational performance meant that the Marinegruppen all reached their targets. The battlecruiser Renown had a brief engagement with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, while the destroyer Glowworm was lost in a fight with the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper further south

Oslofjord: The fate of Blucher showed what could have been achieved had Norway been properly prepared. Blucher was torpedoed while heading up the fjord to capture the Norwegian capital. The Norwegian King and Government were able to get away as a result.

Narvik: There was a brief, and one-sided fire-fight between the German destroyer force sent to land troops at Narvik in the far north of Norway, resulting in the destruction of two Norwegian coastal battleships. But the Germans ships were then trapped for lack of fuel.....

1st and 2nd Battles of Narvik. The 10 German destroyers stranded at Narvik were wiped out in two battles against British destroyers (supported by HMS Warspite). U-64 was destroyed by Warspite's spotter aircraft. The British lost two destroyers - Hardy and Hunter - in the engagements.

Other Norway related losses:

Gurkha was sunk by German aircraft.

Norwegian submarines A-3 and A-4 were scuttled to avoid capture. The remaining subs were captured but only two, B5 and B6, were commissioned by the Germans and were used as training vessels.

The Norwegian destroyer Garm was sunk by aircraft, while Tarm was captured and used as a supply vessel by the Germans.

Karlsruhe had completed her mission at Kristiansand but was then torpedoed by a British submarine on her return journey. Konigsberg was damaged by coastal batteries during the initial landing and then destroyed by British aircraft while in port.

The u-boat U-49 was sunk by destroyers off Harstad, Northern Norway.


Elsewhere:

Curiously the French lost two destroyers and both were caused by accidents involving their own torpedoes while in port.

U-31 was lost in an air attack with all hands but was later raised and re-entered service. Three u-boats, U-44, U-1, U-50 (and possibly a fourth U-22) were lost due to British laid mines.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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May/June 1940 [Draft]

Key Events:

The Shooting War intensified as first the Germans tightened their grip on Norway (the latter was evacuated by the beginning of June). Then, on 10 May 1940 the German army launched their attack against France and the Low Countries.

With the French on their knees and the British all but kicked off the continent, Italy joined the war in time for the victory parade and a share of the spoils......

... the withdrawals from France and Norway caused grim losses for the Royal Navy. The French navy suffered too - but France was soon to exit stage left....

Key Battles:
Operation Alphabet. The withdrawal from Norway after capturing Narvik.

Operation Juno: The RN was dealt a major blow when the second of its three useful carriers was sunk after being found, heading back to the UK, by the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. Two of the destroyers losses - Acasta and Ardent - were lost in this one-sided engagement.

Operation Dynamo: The evacuation of the BEF and trapped French forces from Belgium and Northeastern France. And later operations, Cycle, and Ariel to remove remaining forces from the north and west coasts of France.




Two of the four named ships lost this turn were sunk during operations off Norway. Effingham ran aground and capsized, the old AA Cruiser Curlew was lost to air attack. A third, the old and un-modified cruiser Calypso, was sunk by an Italian sub.

A British destroyer, Afridi and the French destroyer Bison were sunk by air attack while assisting the evacuation of troops from Namsos. Aircraft also claimed the British destroyers Whitley and Valentine while operating off the Belgian coast. Yet another destroyer, Whirlwind, was lost to a u-boat in the North Atlantic. To cap off a pretty disastrous turn, the Canadian destroyer Frazer was sunk after a collision with a cruiser.

The Polish destroyer Grom was lost off Narvik, and this turn claimed the submarine Orzel too. Her fate and exact date of sinking is unknown.

The French submarine Doris was lost to u-boat attack off the Dutch coast.

The invasion of Holland saw some vessels escape to the UK. Amongst the unlucky ones was the destroyer Van Galen, bombed and sunk in harbour. The submarines O8, O11 and O12 were captured by the Germans. O13 escaped, only to be sunk in error by the Polish sub Wilk.

The Allied navies had their work cut out elsewhere and the u-boats, returning to their hunting grounds after the Norwegian interlude, start to make hay. Just two boats were lost this turn - U-13 to British destroyers and U-122, which went missing with all hands.

As seen, even prior to Operation Dynamo being implemented the British and French navies were suffering. The French destroyer L'Adroit was sunk by aircraft on the 21 May and two days later Orage suffered the same fate. Jaguar was sunk by torpedo boats the same day and Chacal was lost the following day to air attack. HMS Wessex was sunk by air attack off Dunkirk too. Once Dynamo got underway, the losses really accelerated: destroyers were sunk by torpedo boat (Wakeful, Sirocco), by aircraft (Grenade, Keith, Basilisk, Havant and Foudroyant), artillery (Bourrasque) and submarine (Grafton)

In the Mediterranean it was soon realised that Italian submarines were not ideal for confined waters. Provana was rammed and sunk after being brought to the surface by a French sloop, British submarines accounted for Diamante, British aircraft sank Rubino and British destroyers sank Liuzzi, Argonauta and Scebeli.

Italian submarine operations in the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf were woeful, Macalle was lost on a shoal, Galilei was surrendered following a surface battle with a British ASW trawler, Galvani was sunk by a British sloop. Torricelli was also destroyed in a gun battle with British destroyers - but took Khartoum with her.

British submarines suffered too - Grampus was lost at the hands of Italian torpedo boats, while Italian destroyers claimed Odin and Orpheus. Seal had been lost in early May in the Kattegat after having to surface due to damage to the boat. She was captured before she could sink.

The French submarine Morse was lost to an Italian minefield and the fall of France saw the scuttling of the submarines Achille, Agosta, Ouessant and Pasteur and the destroyer Cyclone.


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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Jul/Aug 1940 (Draft)

Another punishing turn for the Allied player. The CW now stand alone and the Royal Navy - punished for the army's mistakes, is over stretched thanks to the Italians joining the Axis.

The French sign an armistice with the Germans. At this time there are French naval units spread over many locations. As said the Royal Navy can't afford the French fleet to fall into the hands of the Axis. Churchill knows he can't trust Hitler and suspects the motivations of Admiral Darlan and the Vichy regime.

French naval vessels in the UK are seized by the British (2 obsolete battleships, 4 destroyers and 7 submarines) and in Egypt, Admiral Godfroy and Admiral Cunningham show what could have been possible at Mers-el-Kebir. The French ships there (1 old battleship, 3 heavy and 1 light cruiser, 3 destroyers and a submarine) are handed over to the British for demilitarisation.

Sadly for all parties, Admiral Gensoul and his superiors in Paris had other ideas. The result was the attack on Mers-el-Kebir that saw the old battleship Bretagne sunk.

The ships in the UK, less the battleships, were used by the Free French (one destroyer - Ouragon - was given to the Polish navy), although two of the submarines - Orion and Ondine - were cannibalised for spares for the others. The submarine at Alexandria - Protee - was also put into service. Note: some ships were used recommissioned later in the war after the fall of French North Africa and we will come to these later.

Another seriously bad turn shows why the British were so worried about the French fleet. Losses of submarines off Norway were serious and halted operations as Shark and Narwhal (aircraft) Salmon and Thames (mines) and Spearfish (u-boat) were all lost. Things weren't much better in the Med as Phoenix was lost to a torpedo boat and Oswald to destroyer attack.

Destroyer losses were even worse. Two were lost in the Med (Escort to submarine and Hostile to mines). Esk and Ivanhoe were lost to enemy mines during a minelaying mission, Imogen was lost in a collision and the remaining four destroyers were sunk by aircraft in the Channel and east coast as the Luftwaffe undertook their Kanalkampfe in advance of the intended invasion of the UK.

The Germans lost 4 u-boats to a variety of causes; submarine, mines, destroyers and a destroyer/aircraft combination.

The Italian losses were relatively light during the turn, 1 light cruiser in a surface action, and 4 destroyers to Fleet Air Arm bombers (although Pancaldo would be later salvaged. Just one submarine was lost courtesy of a British submarine.

The Japanese lost a submarine due to an accident - as opposed to anything the Chinese could do to hurt them.

The Greek destroyer Helle was sunk by an Italian torpedo from a submarine. Italy denied all knowledge of this incident but this has been proven false.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Sep/Oct 1940 (Draft)

Someone must have thrown a 10 for the weather this turn... losses were limited, although the Battle for the Atlantic remained tough on the merchants.

Two of the three destroyers losses for the CW were, to a degree, self-inflicted, HMCS Margaree was lost in a collision, while HMS Sturdy foundered after running aground in a storm. Venitia was lost to mines in the Thames Estuary.

CW submarines losses were also reduced but H49 was lost in the channel to German submarine chasers, while Triad fought and lost a surface gun battle with an Italian sub. Rainbow was lost after colliding with an Italian steamer.

The Kriegsmarine lost just two u-boats, and one of these - U-57 - which was also lost in a collision with an enemy steamer, was raised later. U-32 was sunk by British destroyers.

The Italians suffered five destroyers sunk, although Borea (air attack) was later salvaged. Nullo was lost to air and destroyer attack in the Red Sea, Aquilone to mines, Gemma in a blue on blue incident with an Italian submarine and Artigliere in a surface engagement.

Italian submarines were not covering themselves in glory in the Atlantic, while in the Med Foca was lost off Haifa while minelaying, Fafole and Berillo suffered at the hands of British destroyers, while Durbo and Gondar and were sunk thanks to a destroyer/aircraft combination. The latter was on its way to launching a 'Pig' attack.

DeGaulle's plan to convert Dakar to Free French control was a major failure that cost the RN many damaged ships, however the outright losses were Vichy's as two submarines were sunk by British destroyers.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Nov/Dec 1940 (Draft)

Another 'light' turn for the named ships, and it was submarines that took the lion's share of the losses in November and December 1940.

The CW once again lost the most vessels - 3 submarines and 3 destroyers. The submarine Swordfish was lost to a mine in the Channel while Regulus fell victim to a mine and Triton to a torpedo boat - both in the Med. The destroyer losses were Cameron (to aircraft) and Acheron (to mines) both in the Channel) and Hyperion to an Italian sub in the Med.

The Germans lost another two u-boats, although U-31 was actually lost for the second time - the first being in March. Mines accounted for U-104 and U-31 was destroyed - this time for good - by a British destroyer.

The Italians lost another 3 submarines - only one in the Med (Naiade) at the hands of British destroyers and a further two (Tarantini and Faa di Bruno) in the North Atlantic; the former to a British submarine and the latter to destroyers.

Submarines of the minor powers continued to incur losses fighting alongside the British - the Dutch O22 was lost to German ASW vessels off Norway while the Greek Proteus met a similar fate against in the Mediterranean fighting an Italian torpedo boat.

The Vichy French lost two subs, Poncelet in an engagement with the British off Gabon and Sfax to an accidental sinking by a u-boat.

The Free French lost Narval to a mine in the Med.

The Russians lost the submarine D1 in a training exercise

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Jan/Feb 1941 (Draft)

A short winter turn... The losses to named ships increased markedly, while the losses of smaller craft was very light.

Despite the protestations of authors like O'Hara, it was the arrival of the Germans that began the over-stretched Royal Navy's woes in the Mediterranean theatre.

The CW lost a further 3 destroyers to different causes - Gallant hit a mine off Malta. She was towed to port but was later further damaged in air raids. She was never fully repaired. Dainty was lost to aircraft off Tobruk and Exmoor was sunk in an S-boat attack of the East Coast of England.

The British submarine Snapper was sunk by minesweepers in the Bay of Biscay.

The only other country to suffer a loss was Italy. Three more submarines were sunk and once again it was the North Atlantic that claimed two of the three. Nani was lost to a corvette and Marcello to British destroyers. Neghelli was the only casualty in the Mediterranean - and she too was sunk in a destroyer attack.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Mar/Apr 1941 (Draft)

A busy old turn this one - and a bit of pain for the Axis.

The Italians lost six destroyers thanks to the fall of Mussolini's East African Empire. The destroyer Leone was scuttled after running aground, Battisti suffered the same fate as engine trouble means she couldn't make a run for it ahead of the fall of Massawa. The remaining ships put to sea but Pantera and Tigre were also scuttled, as there was nowhere to go, while Manin and Sauro fell victims to Eagle's aircraft.

Alfieri and Carducci were lost during the Cape Matapan debacle. Baleno, Tarigo and Lampo were lost during the 'Tarigo' convoy in which an Italian convoy was destroyed to a British destroyer force. Lampo was later raised.

The Italian submarine force suffered a couple of losses too - Anfitrite was sunk by a destroyer while attacking a convoy, while Capponi fell victim to a British submarine.

The German u-boats also had a bad turn - 7 boats lost - to destroyers and other surface escort vessels. The notable loss this turn was Gunther Prien's U-47 whose exact fate remains unknown.

The ill-fated decision to go into Greece cost the Royal Navy dear. The first losses were the destroyers Diamond and Wryneck which were sunk by the Luftwaffe. The CW also lost Mohawk to a torpedo during the 'Tarigo' convoy battle mentioned above.

One British submarine was lost in the Mediterranean this turn - HMS Usk - but the reasons for her loss will likely never be known. A mine is considered most likely.

The final losses this turn were as a result of the fighting in the Balkans coming to a climax. The Yugoslav navy had three destroyers - Dubrovnik, Beograd and Ljubliana - captured and taken into service by the Italians. A fourth, Zagreb, was scuttled by her crew. Three submarines were also captured and given to the Regia Marina, but Hrabri was never commissioned due to the condition of the vessel.

The Greek navy lost the destroyer Georgios to an accident in port, and four more destroyers were lost to German air attack.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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May/Jun 1941 (Draft)

Key Events:

The Battle for Crete was waged, the island lost and the Royal Navy -devoid of air cover - took another pasting.

Barbarossa - the German invasion of the Soviet Union began

CW attempts to relieve Tobruk fail.

Key Battles:

We moved into the second summer of the war and, with the Royal Navy having to bale out the army - yet again, and yet again without the benefit of air cover - the losses were only going to mount. The number of ships sunk doesn't begin to tell the story.



The Germans lose the first of their auxiliary cruisers - Pinguin - after she is found and sunk by HMS Cornwall. These ships proved remarkably effective raiders.

More commentary to follow:

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Jul/Aug 1941

Key Events:

Barbarossa continued and as Army Group North headed toward Leningrad, so the Baltic States were 'liberated' and the Soviet Baltic Fleet was pushed back from its bases there.

In August the first of the Arctic Convoys to the USSR commenced, giving the hard pressed Royal Navy yet another ocean to operate in.....

The operations to break the siege of Tobruk, having failed, meant that once again the Royal Navy were thrown into action - this time to try and keep the garrison supplied.

Key Battles:

The Battle of the North Atlantic continued to intensify following the fall of France, the building of u-boat bases on the French Atlantic coast, and more and more u-boats came on line, making the CW's task all the harder....


This turn was typified by lots of small ship engagements - particularly in the Baltic as the navies were used to support advances/retreats along the coast, and islands were invaded.

Mines proved deadly in these confined waters, the bulk of the Soviet losses this turn - seven submarines (and possibly an eighth) and seven destroyers fell foul of German mine barrages. Air attack accounted for the destroyers Serdity, Stremitelny and Karl Marx, while Smely was lost to an s-boat attack. The submarine M-94 was lost in a dual with a u-boat.

The CW losses were much lighter and most of these were in the Mediterranean. The destroyer Defender was lost to air attack during the Tobruk operation, while Fearless was sunk by an Italian submarine in the Western Med. Five submarines were lost - Umpire to a collision off the east coast of England, P.32 to a mine and the remaining boats to Italian torpedo boats.

The Royal Norwegian Navy, having been handed HMS Bath (one of the US destroyers for bases vessels), suffered its first loss since the fall of Norway, Bath being sunk by a u-boat in the North Atlantic.

For the Axis, the turn saw seven submarines removed from the order of battle. Three were Italian, Tembien was rammed by a cruiser and Jantina and Bianchi were sunk by submarines.

The Germans lost four u-boats. U-144 to a Soviet sub, U-401 to destroyer attack and U-452 and U-570 to aircraft. U-570 was towed to Iceland and served as HMS Graph later in the war.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Sep/Oct 1941

Key Events:
Barbarossa continued with the Germans seemingly inexorable drive toward Leningrad in the north and toward Rostov in the south. The later brought the Soviet Black Sea Fleet and the Romanian navy into play.

Much to the chagrin of Donitz, Hitler ordered precious u-boats from the North Atlantic to the Mediterranean threatre.

The CW prepared for another attempt to break the siege of Tobruk....

In the Pacific Japan headed toward a point of no return in their planning for war with the west.

Key Battles:

The Battle of the North Atlantic continued. It was only a matter of time before the US naval forces in the Western Atlantic became involved in the shooting war....


Two named ships were lost this turn. One of Finland's coastal battleships was lost supporting Axis assaults on islands in the Baltic. Meanwhile the Soviets lost the battleship Marat in an air attack. Although some of Marat's armament was repaired and she was used as a gun battery, she never put to sea again and so is counted as lost in the same way as Conti de Cavour.

The Soviets continued to incur heavy losses to their submarine force - and once again the German mine barrages took the lion share of the boats. Only M-74 (air attack) and L-1 (bombardment) were not lost this way. The two destroyers lost were victims of air attack as the Germans closed in on Leningrad.

CW losses were lighter this turn. Two destroyers fell victim to u-boats in the North Atlantic and, in the Mediterranean, the submarine Tetrarch was lost to a mine.

The US destroyer Reuben James was sunk by a u-boat as the US Navy was increasingly used to escort vessels in the western Atlantic to ease the pressure on the British and Canadian navies.

Euro Axis losses were once again confined to submarines. The u-boat fleet suffered the loss of four boats - all to escort vessels in the North Atlantic, while the Italians lost six submarines. Barraca and Marconi were lost in the North Atlantic, Ferraris was lost off Gibraltar, while Adua and Fisalia were sunk in the Med. All of these boats were sunk by escort vessels. Smeraldo was also lost in the Med but believed to have been victm of a mine.

Accidents claimed ships of two non-combatants this turn. Three Swedish destroyers were badly damaged in an explosion (cause unknown) and sources differ over the fate of two of them. I believe one destroyer - Klas Uggla was never properly repaired as parts were used for one of her sisters.

The Argentine navy lost a destroyer in a collision with a cruiser.

The Japanese navy lost the submarine I-61 also to an accident and, although raised, she never entered service again.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Nov/Dec 1941


Key Events:

This turn saw the naval war take on a new theatre as the Japanese attacked US and British territory.

On the eastern front, Barbarossa started to hit trouble, but before this happened this turn saw further advances along the Baltic and Black Sea coasts - and the Soviet navy suffer accordingly.

The CW at last relieved Tobruk thanks to Operation Crusader. To Assist this operation the British stepped up attacks on Italian convoys.

Key Battles:

Japanese carrier borne aircraft attack the US Navy fleet anchorage at Pearl Harbor and at the same time invade Malaya and the Philippines.

The battle of the North Atlantic rumbles on. The u-boat arm are about to enjoy a second 'happy time'.

Although Donitz is opposed to using the u-boat arm as a tactical weapon, his u-boats in the Mediterranean make their presence felt...



With the start of the war in the Pacific the losses started to ramp up. The Allied losses were relatively light but those of named ships rocketed and part of the reason for that was this new theatre of war.

The Dutch lost four submarines off Malaya and Borneo; K-XVI to a submarine, O-16 to mines and the remaining two to destroyers. In addition to two battleships (others would be reconstructed) the USN lost two destroyers at Pearl Harbor. The submarine Sealion was lost to air attack in the Philippines.

The CW lost a destroyer during the fall of Hong Kong - Thracian was scuttled (although later raised by the Japanese). Two more destroyers were lost - Stanley in the North Atlantic to a u-boat and Kandahar in the Mediterranean on the minefield that claimed the cruiser Neptune.

Just one submarine was lost - Perseus in the Mediterranean - to mines. There was also the loss of HMS Audacity a captured merchant ship turned CVE. Although sunk by a u-boat, she had proved her worth and many more CVE would be built.

The small ships and boats of the Soviet Navy continued to suffer from mines. All three destroyers were victims of minefields in the Baltic as Soviet forces fell back on Leningrad. All but one of the submarines lost also succumbed to mines (Shch-204 to air attack in the Black Sea). Other Black Sea losses were S-34, Shch-211, M-34 and M-59.

The Axis navies felt a good deal of pain this turn too however. All 15 of the Kriegsmarine losses were u-boats. Donitz anger at the loss of u-boats from their real purpose was intensified by losses in the more confined waters of the Med: U-433 (corvette), U-95 (sub), U-557 (rammed by an Italian TB), U-451 (aircraft), U-75 and U-79 (both destroyers) were lost there. U-580 and U-583 were lost to accidents in the Baltic, U-206 was mined in the Bay of Biscay, and U-131 was scuttled in the North Atlantic. All other losses were to destroyers in the North Atlantic.

The Italians, reacting to Operation Crusader, were tasked with re-supplying Rommel's retreating forces. In addition to the two light cruisers lost on these missions, three destroyers were lost - Fulmine and Da Mosta to surface action and Libeccio to a sub. The submarine Caracciolo was sunk by a destroyer and Malaspina was lost to air attack (Note this sub should have been included in last turn's numbers).

Finally to the Japanese. The first six months of the Pacific War were noteable for the loss of major IJN units, but already in this first turn, their smaller vessels were taking losses. Hayate and Kisaragi were sunk by shore batteries off Wake Island, and Shinonome (air attack) and Sagiri (submarine) were lost off Borneo. Two submarines were lost to accident in the Central Pacific (RO-60 and RO-66) while I-70 was lost to air attack.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

Post by warspite1 »

Jan/Feb 1942

A lighter turn for losses after the mayhem of the previous turn.

Key Events:

The Soviets hit back against the Germans - and this is reflected in the much reduced losses at sea. Soviet naval forces in the Black Sea were particularly active in shelling the enemy on the coast in and around the Crimea.

The Arctic convoys continue and losses are incurred in this theatre.

The Japanese being the campaign against Malaya/Singapore to an end and look to the Dutch East Indies and the vital oil there.

The u-boats have success on the US East Coast.

Key Battles:

The Battle of Java Sea is fought and is a crushing defeat for the Allies forces

The Germans achieve tactical success in getting Scharnhorst, Gniesenau and Prinz Eugen back to Germany through the English Channel - albeit with damage to both capital ships. But the operation is a strategic failure as the reason for the retreat is that the ships are too vulnerable to air attack. Hitler is also worried about Norway....



The Soviet losses amount to just one submarine, lost in the arctic to a German u-boat.

The Commonwealth losses increase again - all three subs lost were in the Mediterranean, Triumph was believed to have been lost to mines and the other two to escorts. Destroyers losses were incurred in the North Atlantic (Belmont to u-boat), the English Channel (Vimeria to a mine), the Arctic (Matabele to u-boat), the Med (Maori to air attack and Gurkha to u-boat), and southeast Asia (Electra and Thanet to surface action and Jupiter to a mine.

The US lost the destroyer Jacob Jones to a u-boat on the East Coast and Peary to air attack in the NEI. The submarines losses were to destroyer (Shark) and scuttling (S-36) in the NEI, while S-26 was lost in a collision off Panama.

The Free French also lost the submarine Surcouf to an accident in the western Atlantic.

The Dutch losses came in defence of the NEI. The submarine K-VII fell victim to air attack at Soerbaya as was the destroyer Van Nes. Van Ghent was lost before battle due to grounding, while both Kortenaer and Piet Hein were lost to Japanese surface action.

Axis losses were mostly submarines. Five u-boats were lost - three in the North Atlantic to escorts - U-82, U-581 and U-93. While U-374 (to a submarine) and U-577 (to air attack) were lost in the Mediterranean. The Germans also lost the destroyer Heinemann to a mine in the English Channel.

The two Italian submarines lost fell victim to submarines in the Mediterranean.

The Japanese lost a destroyer to a submarine in the waters off the NEI and two submarines there too - I-60 and I-124 - both to escorts. I-73 was lost to a sub off Hawaii while the fate of I-23, also lost off Hawaii, is not known.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Mar/Apr 1942

Key Events:

The Black Sea and Baltic are both active but the Black Sea will begin to assume more importance as the forthcoming Case Blue is focused in the south.

The Arctic convoys continue and losses are incurred in this theatre.

ABDA command is pretty much destroyed (inflicting losses on the RN, RAN, USN and the Dutch Navy) and the Kido Butai move into the Indian Ocean, where they force the Royal Navy into retreat.

The u-boats continue to have success on the US East Coast but the u-boat losses start to increase.

The Benghazi handicap continues and its another bad turn for Royal Navy in the Med - this time the destroyers and submarines are on the receiving end.


Key Battles:

The final battles for ABDA Command are fought and end in more defeat; Sunda Strait and the Second Battle of The Java Sea see three more cruisers removed from the Allied OOB.

The Indian Ocean Raid accounts for another British carrier and two heavy cruisers.


The Soviets lose two subs in the Arctic (one to mines and one to escorts) and a sub and destroyer to mines in the Black Sea.

Donitz loses nine boats - one in the Med (mine) and two in the Arctic (mine and rammed). The remaining boats are lost in the Atlantic (three to escorts, one possibly to a mine but two, ominously, to aircraft)

A destroyer was lost in action against an Arctic convoy.

The Regia Marina lost three submarines - all to sub attack in the Med. Two destroyers were lost due to storm damage following the Second Battle of Sirte.

The Royal Navy lost five submarines, all in the Mediterranean, three were lost to air attack at Malta, a fourth to escorts and a fifth either to mine or air attack.

The death knell of ABDA command took another two destroyers in surface engagements, while Japanese aircraft accounted for two more in the Indian Ocean. A destroyers was lost to s-boat attack in the Channel and another during the raid on St Nazaire. The remaining seven were accounted for in the Med (three to submarines, three to air attack and one to mines).

The Dutch Navy lost three more destroyers (two scuttled and one lost at sea) while a further three submarines were scuttled in the face of the advancing Japanese.

The Greek Navy lost a submarine to air attack while at Malta


*Note Trinidad was not actually scuttled until the following month and so should be included in May/June 1942 Return.
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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

Post by warspite1 »

May/Jun 1942

Key Events:

The pattern of the remainder of the war is set. In the Far East the Pacific becomes the focus and the Indian Ocean becomes a secondary theatre.

In North Africa the Germans continue their advance, but the fighting on the Eastern Front remains the key to winning the European War.

The Battle of the Atlantic continues to rage and will continue to do so.

The fighting in the Arctic hots up

The battle for control of the Middle Sea nears its conclusion.

Key Battles:

The IJN respond to the Doolittle Raid with a woefully abysmal operation to take Midway Island and destroy the remaining USN carriers. The results of the Battle of Midway match the preparation and planning by the IJN. Prior to this disaster the Kido Butai cause severe losses to the RN in the Indian Ocean and the Japanese are finally checked in the Coral Sea as they attempt to take Port Moresby.

The convoys to the USSR via the Arctic are stepped up and the challenge is met by the Luftwaffe and U-boat arm.

Malta is the focus of British efforts - but keeping this symbol of resistance in the game costs the RN dearly.

Meanwhile Rommel needs every ton of supply fed to North Africa.

Commonwealth losses remained high, reflecting the sheer scope of operations. Two subs were lost - one to a mine in the Med and the other to collision in the Atlantic. Destroyer losses numbered six to air attack in the Med, two to u-boat in the Med, and a further two were lost to collisions (Arctic and Atlantic).

Regia Marina losses were all in the Med, two submarines were lost to air attack, one destroyer was sunk by friendly fire, one ran aground and finally one to destroyers.

The Kriegsmarine lost a destroyer in the Arctic, while u-boat losses, much to Donitz's continued annoyance, were mostly in incurred in the Med - one to destroyers, three to air attack (one of which resulted in the u-boat sailing for Spain where she entered service). Air and escort vessels caused one loss each in the Atlantic, while escorts accounted for a u-boat in the Carribbean.

The USN lost a submarine to grounding, while a destroyer was lost at each of Coral Sea (to air attack) and Midway (to submarine)

The Japanese lost two submarines - both to sub attack, while two destroyers were lost, one to air and the other to submarine

The Soviets lost four destroyers, all in the Black Sea (two to mines and two to air) while submarine losses were split between the Arctic, two (escorts and unknown) Black Sea, five (two scuttled at Sevastopol, one to accident, one to air and one to escorts) and finally two to mines in the Baltic.

The Polish navy, fighting with the Royal Navy, lost a destroyer in the Med to a mine and a submarine to friendly fire in the Arctic

The Vichy French losses were all submarines and were lost to air attack (two) and destroyer action (one) during the British invasion of Madagascar.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

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Jul/Aug 1942

Key Events:

The US begin the fightback. Having stalled the Japanese momentum in the Coral Sea, and then crushed them at Midway, a move was made to ensure the supply line to Australia remained open; a landing in the Solomon Islands centred on an island named Guadalcanal. The fight for these islands and the waters around them would continue for the best part of four more turns.

In the Mediterranean the British decision to keep Malta in the fight continued to hurt the overstretched Royal Navy and during this turn the vital Pedestal convoy added to those losses.... but saved Malta.

The fight to keep the USSR in the war; from the Arctic to the Baltic and down to the Black Sea continued.

The Battle of the Atlantic continued on and this turn saw a really bad reversal of fortune for Donitz's u-boat.

Commonwealth forces staged an assault on fortress Europe.....

Key Battles:

There were two naval battles around the Solomons; the Battle of Savo Island and the Battle of the Eastern Solomons.

Following the failure of the Harpoon and Vigorous convoys the previous turn, the Pedestal convoy operation was launched to try and save Malta.

The disaster that was PQ17 took place this turn - although the losses were all merchantmen thanks to the decision to scatter the convoy on the basis that it was believed Tirpitz was at sea.

In Northern France the Raid on Dieppe was launched.

Commonwealth losses were lighter this turn. Dieppe accounted for one of the destroyers lost (air attack), while the other two were lost in the Channel (air) and the Mediterranean (torpedo-boat).

The sole submarine lost was in the Med and was accounted for by escort vessels.

As the Germans moved into the Caucasus, the Soviets lost two destroyers in the Black Sea to air attack.

Mines were the biggest killer of Soviet submarines; two submarines were lost in the Arctic, two in the Baltic and two in the Black Sea. The seventh sub was lost to escort vessels in the Baltic.

The USN lost two submarines - one to grounding in the South Pacific and the second to escorts in the North Pacific.

An accident also accounted for a destroyer in the North Atlantic, while the remaining three were lost in the South Pacific to destroyer, mine and aircraft.

The Japanese lost two destroyers to submarines in the North Pacific and two more in the South Pacific to aircraft.

Three Japanese submarines met their end at the hand of escorts - one in the North Pacific (with the help of aircraft) and two in the South Pacific to escorts.

Six of the seven Italian submarines were lost to escorts in the Med, and one of these was captured and later pressed into British service. The fate of the seventh was unknown - probably a mine.

Like the Italians, all German naval losses were submarines - and the numbers rose sharply to twenty-one. Fifteen were lost in the Atlantic, five to aircraft. Three were lost in the Bay of Biscay, two to aircraft and the third unknown. There was also a loss each in the Arctic (submarine), Mediterranean (to destroyers) and the Baltic (collision).

The neutral Turks lost a submarine to a mine in the Dardanelles.

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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

Post by Dabrion »

I can only say that I have made a rule to loose the `Warspire`(shippy ww1 battleshit) first loss in a WiF game. I go to lengths of making up rules-.violations of my opponents if that doesnt happen.. to restart the game or the naval phase.

I can tell you this has had some KARMIK EFFECT on me! all my games see to be completely and rediculously in my favor since i do it!

I claim to have found a winning stratgy here! Just kill the Warspite first (no matter the cost or the side you play!) and give me your feedback! I thin its really good!
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RE: Historical Naval Losses in MWIF Turns

Post by Orm »

Thank you for these tables, and the effort. [&o] [:)]

Any chance for the second half of the war to be included?
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