1.12.01 supply issues

[Model1950]

Not sure if this is being addressed in .02

Case 1

XXXXVI Corp has 363 fuel, but very little of it seems to be getting into divisions.

[Model1950]

2

[Model1950]

Case #2
3rd PC has 4 units under it ( LAH was dropped fuel). 1 division gets supplies and 2 other receive ZERO

[Model1950]

Case #3
14th PC has 3 units under it. 1 gets supplies dropped to it. 1 division receive supplies and 1 does not.
Also it says 16th MoT is isolated and it simply is not.
The HQ is only 24 Mp's from RH.

A bunch of other issues having to do with supplies - just wanted to make sure you knew about them.

Thanks

[morvael]

Could you upload a save. I think I can then best explain what happened.

[morvael]

For example do you know how horrific is MP cost for motorized (supply counts as motorized) through major river and from+to ZOC? That's why they get nothing or nearly nothing.

[thedoctorking]

Supply is a struggle. I was surprised at the variability of the supply deliveries for Model's units in this game. The guys on the other side of the river, you would think, wouldn't have gotten anything - they had reported -1 supply path. The guys on the right bank had supply path numbers in the 30's and I would have assumed they would all get a half load or so. Instead, it was the other way around.

I can send you a save game if Model can't. Wait until I get home this evening.

[morvael]

Ok, please do.

[thedoctorking]

Here you go.

My password is "Deathride". Model picked it so I'm not too concerned about sharing[8D]
Model, please give Moravel your password.

Also note my lack of factory evacuation rail capacity.

[morvael]

No need to give passwords.

[morvael]

Ok, now I see it. The system is consistent, but perhaps not working as it should be according to the manual, because I have confused two rules during rewrite:

A unit is in supply if it can trace a path of 100 MPs or less to a railhead.

and

In order to receive supply, a combat unit first attempts to trace a path to the headquarters unit to which it is attached. The combat unit must be within both five hexes and twenty MPs of the applicable headquarters unit. In order for a headquarters unit to provide supply to its attached combat and support units, it in turn must be within both 25 hexes and 100 MPs of a railhead. If a combat unit cannot trace an eligible path to its headquarters unit, it will then attempt to trace a path to a railhead as if it was a headquarters unit, i.e. within both 25 hexes and 100 MPs of the railhead.

Somehow it ended up so that units must be within 100MP/25 hexes of railhead to recieve supplies at all. In your case all the units you have pointed out: 25th Motorized Division, III Panzer Corps; 11th Panzer Division, III Panzer Corps; XIV Panzer Corps, and all of its divisions; XXXXVI Panzer Corps, and all of its divisions - were more than 25 hexes from railhead during logistics phase, so they get nothing. If the system was working correctly III Panzer Corps should get some supplies and fuel and pass it on to units, but your XIV & XXXXVI were already too far (but they should distribute what they had on hand). I estimate the railhead at the end of your previous turn were somewhere around 70,99-72,99 (range to rail improved by 3 when comparing range to railhead during the logistics phase and at start of turn), and you were beyond its reach.

So, there is an urgent need for 1.12.03 then...

[morvael]

I think it may have been caused by me trying to already include range penalties in what the units request from HQ, but the penalty should then be based on the location of HQ, not the unit itself.

This was needed to reduce supplies moved using limited rail capacity so that they won't be moved only to be left unused in the city depot.

But this may in turn cause another disadvantage where the units are unable to suck the HQ dry from supplies already on hand.

[Model1950]

There is no PS on my side.

Anyone can open. just hit enter.

[Model1950]

Also what is up with units surrendering if they are isolated? They are not isolated just have 1 supply source or more then 25 hexes from RH.

If a unit has 30% fuel and 30% supplies why would they surrender?

Define 1 supply source.

Is a port a supply source or just a RH?

[Model1950]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Ok, now I see it. The system is consistent, but perhaps not working as it should be according to the manual, because I have confused two rules during rewrite:

A unit is in supply if it can trace a path of 100 MPs or less to a railhead.

and

In order to receive supply, a combat unit first attempts to trace a path to the headquarters unit to which it is attached. The combat unit must be within both five hexes and twenty MPs of the applicable headquarters unit. In order for a headquarters unit to provide supply to its attached combat and support units, it in turn must be within both 25 hexes and 100 MPs of a railhead. If a combat unit cannot trace an eligible path to its headquarters unit, it will then attempt to trace a path to a railhead as if it was a headquarters unit, i.e. within both 25 hexes and 100 MPs of the railhead.

Somehow it ended up so that units must be within 100MP/25 hexes of railhead to recieve supplies at all. In your case all the units you have pointed out: 25th Motorized Division, III Panzer Corps; 11th Panzer Division, III Panzer Corps; XIV Panzer Corps, and all of its divisions; XXXXVI Panzer Corps, and all of its divisions - were more than 25 hexes from railhead during logistics phase, so they get nothing. If the system was working correctly III Panzer Corps should get some supplies and fuel and pass it on to units, but your XIV & XXXXVI were already too far (but they should distribute what they had on hand). I estimate the railhead at the end of your previous turn were somewhere around 70,99-72,99 (range to rail improved by 3 when comparing range to railhead during the logistics phase and at start of turn), and you were beyond its reach.

So, there is an urgent need for 1.12.03 then...

I am sure I am less then 25 hexes from RH - could it be possible it is 100/20 and not 100/25?

[Model1950]

Ok so the RH is at 74,101 during the “logistic phase” which is 22 hexes from 46th PC which as can be seen last turn had 363 fuel in the HQ which did not get to the panzer divisions.
The next turn the 363 fuel “disappear” and no fuel or supplies get to the HQ or the divisions.
Where did the 363 fuel go???????????????????????????????

The units are under the 100/25 yet get no supplies and 363 fuel disappear - why?

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Model1950
I am sure I am less then 25 hexes from RH - could it be possible it is 100/20 and not 100/25?

Your distance to RH in the logistics phase is equal to your distance to RH at the end of your previous turn (provided hex control and rail state remains unchanged during enemy turn). What I may have forgot to add in the changelog, is that now distance in hexes to rail/supply is measured along the path of lowest MP cost, not as the crow flies.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Model1950

Also what is up with units surrendering if they are isolated? They are not isolated just have 1 supply source or more then 25 hexes from RH.

If a unit has 30% fuel and 30% supplies why would they surrender?

Define 1 supply source.

Is a port a supply source or just a RH?

Units are isolated if they are more than 100 MP from RH, or if they are unable to trace a connection to permanent supply source (basically hexes with rail at the edge of the map) through friendly controlled hexes and/or not enemy controlled sea hexes. Port is not a permanent supply source (cities listed as supply source in unit supply details window are only supply sources, not permanent supply sources, i.e. places from where the unit will draw supply and fuel). Being isolated or not is separate thing from being able to draw supply/fuel from somewhere.

[morvael]

Changed highlight rules to denote poor supply situation from this:

[morvael]

to this (instead of yellow over 50MP and red over 100MP it shows yellow when Mp/Rg modifiers drop below 50% which is over 57MP or 18 hexes, and red over 100MP or 25 hexes):