Support AA

[Michael T]

The AA that you can deploy to defend against resource bombing doesn't seem too get many hits.

Alvaro what is the hit process here?

I have had some tests with bombing cities and I a not impressed with the hit rate.

Also is there a limit to how may AA guns can deploy to resource hex?

[AlvaroSousa]

6 AA per hex. It hits about 50% of the time.

It is effective.

[AlbertN]

You need lots of AA.

The hit rate is definitely not 50% per AA point. But also it does not cost that much. On the other hand it covers 1 hex only - but it's permanent so...
Has it any sense to AA up the strategic resources? (Don't think so)

The problem is that right now with interceptors being wonky and hardly hitting the bombers strategic bombing is just way too amazing. Especially as multiple bombers can concenrtate on 1 hex and obliterate it and then pick another hex and do the same there; with just 1 'maintenance' bombing run on that hex obliterated to keep it down.

I even tried a '43 multiplayer - was the Allies - and the poor German guy got so trashed in hmm ... 6 turns that Soviets were in Poland already, Allies about Naples (taken Sicily and halfway of Sardinia), the Luftwaffe in the West was pratically obliterated already, and so was the Rhur. And his production was to go down each subsequent turn with 0 hope for him to recover.

He resigned (rightfully so).

Anyhow it would do good to know precisely how AA works.
Even if it's something simple. Like roll a D10, and if the roll is less or equal than the hex AA level, a single hit is inflicted.

But as it is now I am 100% sure the AA does not hit at 50% ratio.
In that '43 game, each German hex bombed had a level 5 AA. My planes were suffering from 0 to max 2 hits per run. And AA is a relative investment. Either you carpet the whole of the hexes with AA, or other targets will be simply hit.

With that in mind, I'd also evaluate firmly if to remove the bonus range to Allied bombers. Have them tech for it like everyone else. At least it should limit the hexes they can hit early in the war already.

[Michael T]

Thanks for the info. That is what my testing indicates. 50% hits with 6 AA. 1 AA is less than 10%

The allied Strategic Bombing in 39/40 is OP IMO. However I have devised a scheme to neutralize them, at least pre 43/44.

[Michael T]

One more question. Is there any other type of unit AA that helps defend against strategic bombing?

I mean does air unit aa help, or ground unit aa, or HQ unit aa or some other I have missed?

[AlvaroSousa]

Remember AA is over time also. Allied bombers can't pound you every turn. With 6 AA they are losing 30% of their strength on average each turn. If they do it 3 turns straight they lose almost all their strength. Also strat bombers take greater effectiveness loss and use a hell of a lot of oil.

[Michael T]

With 6 AA they are losing 30% of their strength on average each turn.

How do you figure that? 6AA hits 50% of the time. So a bomber on average losses 1 strength per 2 attacks (1 strength per turn) So 1/20 is 5%.

And I found that I could bomb away 4 out of 5 turns and still maintain 3 to 4 hits every raid turn with the UK Bomber. I might add by the end of the game (Oct 1940) I had flattened the Ruhr (Cologne, Essen and Dusseldorf) with just the single UK Strat Bomber and the 2 UK Tac bombers. Sure my opponent had little AA, but is it expected that the German needs to max out AA in 1940?

[tyronec]

Thanks for the info. That is what my testing indicates. 50% hits with 6 AA. 1 AA is less than 10%

The allied Strategic Bombing in 39/40 is OP IMO. However I have devised a scheme to neutralize them, at least pre 43/44.

Care to share your scheme ?

[Michael T]

Not with future opponents [8D]

[AlvaroSousa]

50% of max 6 AA = 3

3 damage / 20 air strength = 15%.

Everything is adjusted and balanced over time but the are mountains of variables and different player skills to look at

[AlbertN]

Never seen AA inflict that kind of damage on the bombers but I take further experimenting can be done with a '43 scenario, or '44, where Allies have plenty of strat bombers and Germans lots of AA.

[Michael T]

So are you saying that each AA factor has a 50% chance of a hit?

If so I just don't see that at all. Maybe I have been lucky.

[AlbertN]

Tested that out - it's quite simple. Start '44 or '43 scenario.
Bomb away.
Check combat log details for AA damage.
Rince repeat.

In '44 Scenario:

With 6 AA in the hex - out of 8 strategic bombing run, averagely 2 hits total are scored (across the 8 runs).


Out of 8 missions (2 per bomber), the first four were escorted and intercepted. Then German fighters stopped to show up.
Germany fighters suffered 6-8 losses across their 4 combats, and inflicted 3-5. (Sure bombers are escorted, but since bombers are escorted by 1 fighter, it's not a matter of 1000 Allied planes vs 6 Germans)
AA fired every combat, averaging 2 hits out of 8 bombing runs. That with a max strength AA.
Strategic bombers averagely inflict 50% of thei strategic value to targets. Be it City or Synth Oil.

Dare say AA is quite useless at this stage.

[AlvaroSousa]

Well something isn't right. The casualties are there but it isn't reporting things correctly. I will check it out.

[Michael T]

What was the result of your check here Alvaro?

[AlvaroSousa]

The result was there was corrupt data in the scenario game stats.

Cleared it up. Ran some strat bombing missions. Seems fine to me.

[Michael T]

Great, be nice to see it working now. Perhaps Strat bombing won't be such an issue in 39-40 now.

[AlvaroSousa]

The corrupt data was just display stats. The combat works correctly. Remember it is also economy of force. The allies could fly lone bombers into Germany fighters and AA and kill themselfs on the production but in terms of efficiency they will drain themselves faster than the Axis depending on a number of factors.

But if you have 2 escorts and 2 strats vs 1 german fighter + AA. The bombers will eventually win by wearing down the german fighter.

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

The corrupt data was just display stats. The combat works correctly. Remember it is also economy of force. The allies could fly lone bombers into Germany fighters and AA and kill themselfs on the production but in terms of efficiency they will drain themselves faster than the Axis depending on a number of factors.

But if you have 2 escorts and 2 strats vs 1 german fighter + AA. The bombers will eventually win by wearing down the german fighter.

Is escort range one of the advancement categories ?

[AlvaroSousa]

Range is the escort and intercept range of planes. The escort fighter advancement increases range.