A game wish

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:43 pm

Is their anyway for the game to record your entire game?

This would be great instead of having to write an entire AAR

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:20 pm

AFAIK, there is no such thing in Airborne Assault.

Nevertheless, it's a cool idea.
I'd like to review a game from start to end, like a movie...

JeF.

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:49 pm

See:

showthread.php?s=&threadid=36979

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:39 pm

Thanks

But with a movie you could simply put it on a website and let ppl download it and play it

It would be exactly like a movie

Ive requested battlefront do this with CM 3 times now and they havnt listened

But with my limited programming knowledge it doesnt seem like it would be impossible to include

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:52 pm

I made this proposal on the BTS Public Forum on 10/11/02. It addresses your interest and implementation.

--- The Post ---

Sorry, I could not resist replying to my own post.

If you were to use the same strategy for generating "tracks" replays which are available in some flight sims like Flanker 2.51 and IL-2 1.2OV ... you could really have a significant enhancement to the game.

Here is how it goes:

(1) All random events that happen during actual game play use a seed which is stored in the "track" file. Thus, although events are random, they can be recreated during a replay.

(2) The "track" file records all player commands issued to particular units with parameters and the particular game time that they were issued ...

(3) With this information saved to the track file, you could then use the game engine to produce a replay of the battle with a very limited amount of addition programming. You just need to change the command input stream from a mouse/keyboard to a file.

(4) Once you have the capability to generate a replay of the battle, you could also offer the player the option of taking over responsibility of the command input stream at any point and effectively stepping back into the battle.

I think for a minimal investment of software effort this might give you two very substantial new features to an already good product.

I should point out one potential problem which will arise with this approach as you evolve (patch) your product. "Track" recordings will only be compatible with the particular version (game engine) with which they were created. Thus, a very prolific player community which created tracks for sharing on the Internet would be somewhat hampered by this. Supporting multi-version replays would probably be quite a bit of work. However, you should at least put the creating version number in the "track"'s file header and have the game engine check compatibility.

[ October 11, 2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: markshot ]

Kevinugly · Post by **Kevinugly** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:37 pm

Another nice idea Mark! As regards the 'patching' incompatibility problem, this would be easily overcome by keeping more than one version of the game on the hard drive - AA only requires 600mb tops. Only problem would be 'newbies' who only had access to a patched version of the game.

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:23 pm

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
But with my limited programming knowledge it doesnt seem like it would be impossible to include

I've somehow around 10 years experience in programming.
I can tell you that *nothing* is impossible in software.
All you need is time *and* money (sometimes, money can buy you time...).

Usually, the amount of time and/or money that is required is too high. And people start to make ugly compromises and cool features fall through the windows.

Nevertheless, I'm still all for the idea

Just have a "you failed, you moron" after a 5-days battle is too short. I want instant replay ! (among other things ...)

Cheers,

JeF.

Arjuna · Post by **Arjuna** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:22 am

Good discussion guys.

First off. Yes it is possible to record all actions in the game and to replay them ( like a movie ). However, even if it were possible to stop the recording and recommence play from there, I would not be in favour of that. Similarly, I would not be in favour of allowing you to see what the enemy did either. To me these are both like cheating. They take away the pressure of making decisions in the heat of battle, based only on what little data you have. They are certainly not like real life.

Who would be in favour of a recording, purely for replay only purposes?

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:28 am

I would be in favor of any form of replay. I think it would be pretty cool.

(1) A way to sit back and gloat over your victories.

(2) Learn from your biggest blunders.

(3) Share AARs with the community and learn from others expertise.

(4) I am sure the MP types would love to see a heavyweight match between the likes of Bil and Fionn.

Kevinugly · Post by **Kevinugly** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:31 am

I would definately be in favour of recording for replay only purposes. This wouldn't stop the 'cheating' aspect though as you could save the game, surrender, watch the replay so as to analyse enemy plans, load the savegame and carry on. Fiddly I know but easily do-able. I have to admit to falling prey to the savegame/surrender trick myself and now force myself to avoid using such a cheap ploy, after all, I'm only cheating myself :rolleyes:

Golf33 · Post by **Golf33** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:57 pm

I'd love to see any kind of replay feature.

Regards
33

TMO · Post by **TMO** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:24 pm

Replay, yes. But replay and join in again, no. Also, during the replay I'd only like to know the positions of enemy units that I (thought) I was in contact with. Being able to see all the opponents forces and their exact moves seems like 'cheating' to me - guessing what the AI is trying to do is one of the joys of this game.

TMO

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 1:57 am

Originally posted by Arjuna
Good discussion guys.

First off. Yes it is possible to record all actions in the game and to replay them ( like a movie ). However, even if it were possible to stop the recording and recommence play from there, I would not be in favour of that. Similarly, I would not be in favour of allowing you to see what the enemy did either. To me these are both like cheating. They take away the pressure of making decisions in the heat of battle, based only on what little data you have. They are certainly not like real life.

Who would be in favour of a recording, purely for replay only purposes?

Sorry I wasnt clear....this is what I meant

I would not want to have the movie avalible while the game was going on

I simply want an option that asks if you want to record your game and when the ending screen pops up you can acess that file and view your "movie"

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 2:57 am

Close Combat 1 (released in late 1996) had a replay feature.

If you were playing a campaign, it is made up of a whole series of individual battles.

You could choose to record each battle individually, but not the whole campaign separately.

When watching the replay, you could see the troops from both sides. For the purpose of disecting a battle, it is best to see both sides.

The replay file could be emailed around so other players could watch it.

Yes you could jump in at any time and continue with the battle. But this is a "flash bang" feature and does nothing for me.

The technology was there 7 years ago and I would love the feature available for all wargames.

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:47 am

I started playing flight sims in 1992/93. For the early years of PC flight siming, recorders were pretty much part of the standard feature set.

However, as production budgets went up and profit margins went down, it ultimately got dropped from the majority of games.

Microprose's Pacif Air War had a great recorder. You had quite a few camera views. You could either see a replay with the same views as it was flown. Or you could change views and had option to save the changes to a recording. Thus, you coreagraph it into a feature film. And, you could jump in and take control at any point too. (Now, AA doesn't need the film editting capability, but could you imagine the ability to do that in a game such as Combat Mission. It would be awesome.)

I personally feel all games should have recorders and to varying degrees other tools to analyze the action after fact. Game learning curves should be challenging due to system complexity (richness) and not due to information obscurity.

Arjuna · Post by **Arjuna** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:01 am

Originally posted by MarkShot
I personally feel all games should have recorders and to varying degrees other tools to analyze the action after fact.

Agree

Game learning curves should be challenging due to system complexity (richness) and not due to information obscurity.

Yes, but with a qualification. At the hub of AA is its AI. It's ability to provide a challenge is crucial, not only to the enjoyment derived by the player but also to the games commercial success. Therefore, just as in real life side A will try and keep its battle plans secret from side B, I am not in favour of providing the player with unfetted observation of the enemy AI's plans.

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:45 am

Of course a replay is only available after a game is over.

Which means you can study a completed game and that you can never have access to your opponent's plans till it is all over.

I find the study of a completed game fascinating. I love to discuss a completed game with an opponent.

Kevinugly · Post by **Kevinugly** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 4:58 am

But when is a game truly 'over'. To me the replay should only be available if the opponent surrenders or at the end of the time limit. Otherwise it would be open to the sort of abuses I noted above.

CriticalMass · Post by **CriticalMass** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 12:34 pm

How about two local replay files. Your forces positions/movements and what they "thought" they saw.

At the "end" of a game the two sides could send a copy of there file to their opponent, and merge the two (don't ask me how, this is "blue skies"

).

Of course, this is only relevant to MP games: in single play the "merged" file is the default (maybe).

TANX
Critical

Tbone3336 · Post by **Tbone3336** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:23 pm

I would also agree that a replay feature would be nice. However, I would like other features for the game before the time is spent on this option. Most notably a campaign feature, and possibly that North Africa module

.