garrison question

[jjdenver]

Manual says:
"Garrison units have 50% movement and 50% offensive firepower but return 25% logistics and 25% production, and use 25% less supply stockpile. "

What does it mean "returns logistics and production?

Maybe I need a primer on logistics and production.

UK starts with 2450 logistics (produced per turn?) and 1350 logistics stockpile.

I understand that building a 30 point infantry corp uses 30 logistics. How does this affect the 2 numbers above when it's built and how does it affect the 2 numbers above each ongoing turn it's on the map?

For production I thought production is created by economy each turn (107 per turn for UK at start of the game for example) and then "spent" one time for each unit produced - for example 360 to produce a tank corp. If I set an infantry unit to garrison then production is returned to the stockpile and available to build other units? Is that right?

Using 25% less supply stockpile seems straight forward but maybe I also don't understand it properly. I'd assume this means nothing if connected to primary supply but if operating in an area with limited supply - let's say Italians in east Libya - then this might mean if you set the infantry corp defending Tobruk to garrison it could free up some supply from Tobruk port to raise supply levels for other Italian units near Tobruk - is this right?

Really I'm just trying to get a handle on how setting a unit to garrison helps. But it's raising for me a lot of other questions about game systems.

[AlbertN]

Logistic is not produced per turn but a flat value. A hardcore flat roof of how many forces you can field.

So if you have a '39 division, that takes 10 logistic points normally, it will demand only 7.5 (I do not know if there is a rounding or not) once placed in Garrison mode.

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Logistic is not produced per turn but a flat value. A hardcore flat roof of how many forces you can field.
So if you have a '39 division, that takes 10 logistic points normally, it will demand only 7.5 (I do not know if there is a rounding or not) once placed in Garrison mode.

Thanks that helps - can you answer the other questions?

[AlvaroSousa]

Each unit uses logistics. You can only field X amount of units based on logistics. More complex units require more logistics to operate.

As for supply your assumption is correct. Units in garrison status use less port supply stockpile so it would be wise to garrison up Libyan units guarding ports

[jjdenver]

Thanks - nice replies about logicistics. It sounds like the effects of turning a unit to garrison are only temporary - they can help you create a bigger army but then units might be "stuck" in garrison mode if you hit your logistics cap.

But none of these answers help with production and supply. Is there any long term benefit for production/supply? If I use less production/supply today does this allow me to save more to my stockpile to use tomorrow even after I turn the unit from garrison back to regular mode tomorrow? Or is the effect on production/supply temporary just like logistics because both are a "cap"? It wouldn't really make sense but to me the manual and tutorial vids leave me in doubt about how this works in several ways. Can anyone explain?

[AlvaroSousa]

Supply is just supply. It is automatic so there is no saving of supply. It is just generated each turn. Supply overseas just limits how many units you can deploy overseas and their effectiveness. Even the Allies will have this issue in 1944 until they take Antwerp. Supply is determined by distance from the port also. It costs more supply the further out you go from the port. So if the Allies build a lot of armor and deploy it to France by the time the hit the German border their units will not recover effectiveness as fast as the Germans. They are lacking in port supply stockpile and are far from those ports. They might have to split some corps and keep some smaller corps in the south while pushing on Antwerp to get a large port on the North Sea with a huge port capacity.

The Axis have that problem in Africa. Getting to Alexandria is hard.

As for production. Having extra production is always good if you are built out. You can build support items. But if you need to buy things then just buy them. Repairs are done before you can build new items. So generally if you have a large offensive like Barbarossa you want to keep repairs high and builds low to keep that offensives going. Use all your production for it. Then in winter you can put it low if your troops are ok and build some units. Everything is dynamic based on what you want to do. There is no correct answer just the answer that adapts to your opponent.

WarPlan isn't your father's 1994 Panzer's General where it's 1 click units. You have to.....

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa
As for production. Having extra production is always good if you are built out. You can build support items. But if you need to buy things then just buy them. Repairs are done before you can build new items. So generally if you have a large offensive like Barbarossa you want to keep repairs high and builds low to keep that offensives going. Use all your production for it. Then in winter you can put it low if your troops are ok and build some units. Everything is dynamic based on what you want to do. There is no correct answer just the answer that adapts to your opponent.

Great, thanks. But one clarification. Would it make sense let's say even in winter to set the reinf/upgrade amount very high - say 500 because any "overflow" will then just trickle back to be used for production of new units anyway?

[jjdenver]

Bumping this. After re-reading the thread I realized that I really don't understand what "production" is and how it works. I was thinking of it like build points or production points from other games. Each turn you have an income. Some might be spent on maintenance, rest is "saved" or "spent". Is that how it works here? So garrison simply means that you spend less this turn for production leaving more to spend or save?

Let's say that shifting a unit to garrison saves me 5 production. And I leave in garrison for 10 turns. Does that give me 5*10 = 50 production to "spend" at end of that 5 turns? If I leave as garrison for 30 turns now I have 150 production to spend? Do I have the right understanding? Or is it something else like supply (a cap only , not like money you can save and accumulate) so any savings this turn from garrison won't be saved or help me in any way next turn?

[AlbertN]

A unit in 'Garrison' mode does not produce build points per turn.

When an Infantry unit is converted into a Garrison Infantry it litterally refunds you of 25% of its cost. (Proportional to the current Health Points I believe but not sure of that).

When you produce an Infantry Division '39 it costs you 60. When that Division is on map (including ones already on map) and turned into Garrison mode, you gain 15 Production (A quarter of 60) along a bit of Logistic value freed. (Think of it as guns, trucks, etc, returned back to your homecountry, as that division was stripped of offensive and mobile component).

What produces build points per turn, are on map hexes with a brown (or blue for oil) circled number.
If it is originally yours (ie Berlin for Germany, London for UK) it gives the full value.
If it is controlled by you, it gives 1/3 of its value (ie Paris occupied by Germany) - I do not know if numbers here are rounded, or fractions count.

[Flaviusx]

The production returned from garrisoned units is a one off. It's not something you get every turn and shouldn't be seen as ongoing income. Likewise, when a garrisoned unit is set to active, that is also a one off cost. You are just banking stuff from a unit being set to static, and can take that stuff and apply it elsewhere, but nothing new is being made in the process.

Only production centers produce income per turn, subject to various multiplier effects.

[jjdenver]

Thank you!

[AlvaroSousa]

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa
As for production. Having extra production is always good if you are built out. You can build support items. But if you need to buy things then just buy them. Repairs are done before you can build new items. So generally if you have a large offensive like Barbarossa you want to keep repairs high and builds low to keep that offensives going. Use all your production for it. Then in winter you can put it low if your troops are ok and build some units. Everything is dynamic based on what you want to do. There is no correct answer just the answer that adapts to your opponent.

Great, thanks. But one clarification. Would it make sense let's say even in winter to set the reinf/upgrade amount very high - say 500 because any "overflow" will then just trickle back to be used for production of new units anyway?

In the Russian Winter use it to buy some supply trucks because you will suffer under the wrath of Stalin. Non-winterized countries suffer in the snow.

What you save is up to you and how your opponent plays. If you have an aggressive Soviet player who is willing to trade 2:1 and has planned for the winter yes save some and buy some supply trucks.