Okay how to preform ASW ops?

[captnchuck67]

I am getting upset with the IJN boats operating off the coast of Australia,US West coast and around Hawaii. So I have set up Air patrols do the ASW TF do any thing?Is there any way to operate them?

[Anachro]

ASW TFs will actively seek out and try to destroy submarines. Set them to patrol areas of importance (trade route hubs) as well as areas with known enemy sub activity. As a rule, your ASW TFs should be filled with ASW-capable ships, such as destroyers, sub chasers, patrol boats, etc. When making a ASW TF, you'll see a number next to the boats showing their ASW capabilities. You want something higher than 0. Having planes on ASW duty and nav search will also raise DL on enemy subs (planes will also try to bomb these subs); high DL on enemy subs decreases their effectiveness while also increasing your ASW TF's effectiveness.

Again, the way to use ASW is to have them patrol areas using the patrol function. Another gamey tactic is to setup convoys with like 1 xAK and 10-14 ASW vessels. The sub will try to sink a ship in the convoy and pay the price.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: captnchuck67

I am getting upset with the IJN boats operating off the coast of Australia,US West coast and around Hawaii. So I have set up Air patrols do the ASW TF do any thing?Is there any way to operate them?

Allied ASW is weak the first few months of the war. You have few warships with good ASW ratings; and your pilots aren't trained in ASW. You have to train up pilots in a squadron to at least 60+ skill in ASW (many on the forum would say 70+) for air patrol ASW by that squadron to be effective. It will take you several months to start to see results.

[PaxMondo]

As pointed out: you need coordinated air and naval ASW.

Air: increase DL.
Naval TF: prosecute detected subs.

And both need a lot of training on both sides before they will be effective. Then, later in the war the allies get improvement (under the hood) in ASW that will really help. IJ subs become just VP's to harvest starting around the end of '43 and another bump sometime in mid '45. If the IJ gets any 'under the hood' ASW improvement, I'm not aware of them and they are imperceptible in playing.

[BBfanboy]

Note that your Air ASW aircraft only search out HALF the distance that you have set for the aircraft. This is because ASW searches need to be more intensive because of the small target size and its ability to dive when the aircraft is sighted. As Blackhorse mentioned, do not expect much from them for a long time until they are well-trained.

In the early months of the war, you will rarely have spare ASW vessels to do sub hunts- they should all be busy escorting important shipping. That's OK, let the subs come to you. What you as Allies will have is some long range patrol aircraft like the PBY Catalina and the Hudson III bomber. Use these for Naval Search at 6000 feet and range 12 hexes or less. Why 12? Well each PBY searches an arc of 10º, and the wedge shaped area gets too wide to search reliably beyond range 12.

Why Naval Search instead of ASW? Well you get the full range of your search and your pilots usually have better search skills than ASW skills. Besides, you want to spot other enemy naval activity besides subs. Once a sub is spotted, its potential victims know it is in the area and ASW escorts are more likely to find it and attack it. When you get enough spare escorts to hunt the subs, Nav Search to find the subs (including cruiser/BB float planes) and send your patrolling ASW to attack it. If it is also in range of your Air ASW, send that into the area too (using arcs for their patrols).

ASW ship captains need good Naval skill (45+) and high Aggression (55+). In this situation, aggression = persistence which means the ASW ship will not break off the attack so quickly if it loses contact. Also, crew experience is important to achieve hits. They get experience by carrying out attacks, dealing with damage and being at sea patrolling.

Scatter lots of AGs and AKEs around your shipping routes so escorts can replenish their depth charges.

And there is a bug in the Patrol/React routine wherein the patrolling vessel will react to a strong Detection of a sub in the same hex or adjoining hex, but it will never get to attack it during the same turn. But since it is possibly in the same hex as the sub, it could very well detect the sub and attack it next turn.

[rockmedic109]

The best ASW tactic is to bomb them while their docked for rearming and refueling. If you can find their base, port attacks with B-17/B-24 or even a carrier raid will sink them when they're most vulnerable.

[kbfchicago]

Pax and BB have it nailed. Find them with search AC, pin them with ASW TFs. Don't expect allot of sink results, anticipate the high DL (visibility) and harassment will reduce their effectiveness (significantly vs. lurking, non-visible and non-harrased subs). A human player will quickly move their subs to more potentially lucrative target areas with less harassment. Do note they may try to get you to shift your ASW efforts by setting up a patrol zone that extends outside the search arc for a few days, then jumps back into it to try to catch you napping... AI not so smart.

Kevin

[pontiouspilot]

Is it my imagination or are the Brit/Commonwealth ASW ships not much more capable than the USN for the first 12 months or so?? I put several Brit or Aussie DDs or Corvettes in specially tasked ASW TFs to root out detected subs and have good luck. I also highly recommend this practice if you can find them operating in shallow waters. Finally, if you have an opponent who butts his subs into your ports I highly recommend liberal use of mines. You will sink more IJN subs in this manner than any other if your opponent is so inclined to offer them up.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Is it my imagination or are the Brit/Commonwealth ASW ships not much more capable than the USN for the first 12 months or so?? I put several Brit or Aussie DDs or Corvettes in specially tasked ASW TFs to root out detected subs and have good luck. I also highly recommend this practice if you can find them operating in shallow waters. Finally, if you have an opponent who butts his subs into your ports I highly recommend liberal use of mines. You will sink more IJN subs in this manner than any other if your opponent is so inclined to offer them up.

The crew experience of Brit/CW ships is initially better because they have already been at war for over two years before the USN gets into it. Many of the British ships have good radar and carry more ASW weapons and reloads than the USN ones. The USN was still populated with Admirals who expected a Jutland-style confrontation with the IJN or maybe the RN. Because the US did not suffer submarine depredations during WWI like Britain did, the threat of subs was underestimated and little emphasis was put on an ASW program.

[Gratch1111]

Is it better to have one TF of 3 or 4 ASW ships or is it better to have 3 or 4 TF with one ASW ship in each?

[btd64]

As pointed out: you need coordinated air and naval ASW.

Air: increase DL.
Naval TF: prosecute detected subs.

And both need a lot of training on both sides before they will be effective. Then, later in the war the allies get improvement (under the hood) in ASW that will really help. IJ subs become just VP's to harvest starting around the end of '43 and another bump sometime in mid '45. If the IJ gets any 'under the hood' ASW improvement, I'm not aware of them and they are imperceptible in playing.

Pax, good to see you back....GP

[RangerJoe]

As pointed out: you need coordinated air and naval ASW.

Air: increase DL.
Naval TF: prosecute detected subs.

And both need a lot of training on both sides before they will be effective. Then, later in the war the allies get improvement (under the hood) in ASW that will really help. IJ subs become just VP's to harvest starting around the end of '43 and another bump sometime in mid '45. If the IJ gets any 'under the hood' ASW improvement, I'm not aware of them and they are imperceptible in playing.

Pax, good to see you back....GP

His post is from 2020 . . .

[btd64]

Oh....GP

[Torplexed]

Oh....GP

Ahh. That's what I always gets me about thread necromancy. For a moment you think a reunion of former forum members is taking place, and then reality hits you when you spot the date.

[Gratch1111]

So anyone have the answer to this?

Is it better to have one TF of 3 or 4 ASW ships or is it better to have 3 or 4 TF with one ASW ship in each?

[btd64]

One TF of 3 to 4 ships. Although many people think that 3 ships is the magic number....GP

[BBfanboy]

One of the developers chimed in - the fourth ship does not add anything to the chances of detection or attacks on the sub - it is only good as redundancy should one of the TF get damaged/sunk or have to leave to replenish depth charges. So if you have 12 escorts, it is better to have (four TFs of 3 ships) than (3 TFs of 4 ships).

[Trugrit]

Is it better to have one TF of 3 or 4 ASW ships or is it better to have 3 or 4 TF with one ASW ship in each?

I almost always use one ship per ASW task force.

Combined Arms is the key to ASW operations.
Air as well as sea search combined with proper training and effective weapons.

Every player has his own methods.

If you are going to use multiple ships then 3 ships in an ASW task force is the optimum confirmed by a Dev.
But…..I hardly every use more than one sub chaser in an ASW task force.

I like to cover more area in search instead of packing my limited ships
in an ASW task force which may or may not get a hit anyway.

Opportunity cost. Three ships in an ASW task force means that two of those ships can’t
be doing anything else like searching other areas or providing escort.

I almost never try to kill an enemy sub, I focus on spotting alone.
With focus on spotting I still get a fair number of kills.

“I care more about detection of subs than the killing of subs.”
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2#p4774682
Good to read the entire thread.

If I want to really kill a sub I will sometimes use multiple single ship ASW task forces.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8#p4906878
More work for me but I’m O.K. with that.

Playing the Allies I like to use Destroyers but if I’m playing the Japanese I use this advice:
ITAKLinus: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0#p4774580
“As Japanese I very rarely use DDs in ASW TFs”

Fuel management is important for the Japanese.

Just my two cents.