Did something change with Anti Sub?

[PanzerMike]

Playing the latest 5 beta. I have 9 German Subs currently, operating around the clock.
Now look at this:


I am slaughtering the UK Merchant Marine at an alarming rate, but my losses are almost ZERO.
Sinking 140 MM and 15 Escorts for the loss of 4 Sub factors is a VERY good deal...

I slaughtered the UK Merchant marine before:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4741237

But my losses in damaged U boats were a lot higher.

I regularly get results like this:


Something wrong here??

Here is the save should you want to take a look:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikj78zy0ccqml4c/5_23.sav?dl=0

[PanzerMike]

Update:


The entire UK Merchant Fleet is on the bottom of the Atlantic. My losses are laughable: 10 u-boat factors (no units actually lost).

[Flaviusx]

Well, this is bad.

[Flaviusx]

I was hoping this patch would be mostly good, but this sub thing could be a deal killer. Sigh.

[PanzerMike]

I am still killing them in droves:



But according to this the UK is fresh out of merchant marine:


So who am I sinking? The American merchant marine?

Savegame if needed:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7sw95sg4u4vj ... e.sav?dl=0

All with the last Beta, not the official patch.

[Journier]

i have had similar issue actually with the subs saying they are sinkings ships, but UK was out of convoys, and noone elses forces list decreased in convoys.

[PanzerMike]

Doh! This smells like a few bugs. The subs are too lethal or the escorts ineffective (or both). Plus the game can't handle the UK having zero merchant marine.

[Journier]

The AI just doesnt cope well with so many subs out at once, have seen it in my own games as well. but humans do much better for attritioning subs.

theres definitely something wrong with the Casualty/forces list after you zero out the UK convoys, keep updating us with if it actually changes, IIRC in my games after you zero the brits it stops counting or something.

[Journier]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I was hoping this patch would be mostly good, but this sub thing could be a deal killer. Sigh.

Its an AI thing, in human to human play my subs get tore up far worse as long as your building escorts/ harrassing with low chance carriers.

[Flaviusx]

Well, if it is just the dumb AI, then cool.

[PanzerMike]

There may be an AI issue that needs some attention. But in my previous game against the AI my sub losses where a LOT worse. Check out that thread. So I still think something has changed for the worse, AI being dumb or no.

And the 0 UK merchants still being sunk is a bug for sure.

Would really like to know Alvaro's take on this.

[Journier]

some things to point out for the AI in Panzermikes photo's.

1) theres 23 escorts for UK alone, why are only 5 being placed to intercept his subs attack,

2) panzermike do you have the 9 subs split evenly between artic lend lease and atlantic lanes? are the escorts spread equally in each lane? a force list pic current with number of escorts, then the actual combat report will tell us partially whats going on.

[AlvaroSousa]

Ill check it out.

[PanzerMike]

I usually make 2 wolfpacks of about 4 or 5 units. I put them on the Atlantic lanes. After Lend lease starts, I make 3 wolfpacks of about 3 units each. One on the Murmansk Lane and the other two on the Atlantic lanes. I invest about 5 research points in sub advancement spread between normal and long range.

[AlvaroSousa]

Email me the save game plz so I can look at the data.

[Journier]

Nice move, I usually have bad luck against AI with smaller wolf packs (lots of damaged subs for some reason)

[Journier]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7sw95sg4u4vj ... e.sav?dl=0

panzermike had it above.

[PanzerMike]

Yup, two saves in the thread for your pleasure [:D]

[AlvaroSousa]

ORIGINAL: Journier

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7sw95sg4u4vj ... e.sav?dl=0

panzermike had it above.

Looking at it you just really crippled their escort power. I assume this was a previous game.

[PanzerMike]

There are 2 saves in the thread. Both the same game. Beta 5 against the AI.