Italy surrenders to paras !

[tyronec]

Just something to look out for, defend All your ports and ALL your internal city objectives.
Italy surrenders at the end of the turn and all those units just melt into the ether...

[PanzerMike]

Oooh, sneaky [:D]

[MVokt]

That's ridiculous

[tyronec]

That's ridiculous

My mistake for leaving Italy open.
That's the way the game works, you have set your garrisons right.

[AlvaroSousa]

Was the para intercepted? It should have been destroyed if he had no escorts.

[AlbertN]

Hard for some USA Escort fighter (assuming it's like '43 or so) not to be escorting something!
Given atm I only see UK units - but I agree a para seizing Milan should not warrant surrender of Italy.

[tyronec]

Was the para intercepted? It should have been destroyed if he had no escorts.

No intercept despite all the aircraft in range, but there were ample Allied air units around so no reason for them not to have an escort. Or if necessary he could have soaked off the bombers with Naval moves.

I have no objection to this, it is no worse than losing a port and getting taken out that way. If you leave a port open in the wrong place at the wrong time you lose. Same with major cities in Italy.

I posted it to bring it to peoples attention so they don't make the same mistake.

[MVokt]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

That's ridiculous

My mistake for leaving Italy open.
That's the way the game works, you have set your garrisons right.

It's just that a paratrooper drop shouldn't trigger the surrender of a country. It also happened in CEAW.

[MagicMissile]

I soaked up the fighter with a couple of stratbombing attacks as well as some airfield bombings. But I have the feeling that the fighter intercepted more then 2 times. Is that possible?

And yes it is extremely gamey and maybe the unit taking a city should have to be in supply to actually reduce the morale? Or at least let the opponent react one turn before the change actually happens.

With that said it is easy prevent. As soon as I declared war on Vichy you use any Axis minor units and move a unit to each city so it wont even interfere with German or Italian response since they have their own railcap.

If the game had been uncertain in its outcome I might not have done it maybe just mentioned that I could have. But again garrison everything you hold dear [:)].

/MM

[tyronec]

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

That's ridiculous

My mistake for leaving Italy open.
That's the way the game works, you have set your garrisons right.

It's just that a paratrooper drop shouldn't trigger the surrender of a country. It also happened in CEAW.

The game mechanics are clear. Countries surrender when they lose their cities. We may not think that is perfect but there has to be some sort of trigger for Italian surrender at this period of the war and whatever that trigger is it is going to be susceptible to players playing with that knowledge.

There is a simple counter to stop para drops triggering a surrender so just use it. To expect Alvaro to put in a change where paras don't trigger a surrender in these circumstances is unrealistic.

[Meteor2]

Neverthes I am not convinced, that this mechanic is right.
A para unit in the middle of enemy territory without chance of being relieved, should not trigger anything.
Normally it should be out of ammo soon and surrender itself.
Italy surrendering after one drop does not feel right for me.

[battlevonwar]

I remember playing a kid who was giving my sass on the forums in Strategic Command 1 or 2 I believe it was. I had him actually but he did a very gamey paradrop on Berlin itself and won the game. There are a lot of cities to garrison in Italy it really is a nightmare. Germany has to do the job honestly as Italy simply is too frail to guard itself.

[PanzerMike]

ORIGINAL: Meteor2

Neverthes I am not convinced, that this mechanic is right.
A para unit in the middle of enemy territory without chance of being relieved, should not trigger anything.
Normally it should be out of ammo soon and surrender itself.
Italy surrendering after one drop does not feel right for me.

Agree

[tyronec]

Neverthes I am not convinced, that this mechanic is right.
A para unit in the middle of enemy territory without chance of being relieved, should not trigger anything.
Normally it should be out of ammo soon and surrender itself.
Italy surrendering after one drop does not feel right for me.

Probably we all agree that the mechanic is not right.
So just think about what you are suggesting, the city doesn't count as captured because what: It was captured by paras ? it was out of supply ? it was captured by a para drop ?
How are you going to implement that and if it was implemented what new problems would it cause ?

[MVokt]

In CEAW group it was once discussed to prohibit paratrooper landings directly into city hexes. So you give a 1 turn notice to your opponent had your paratrooper has landed adjacent to a city hex and intend to take it.

[PanzerMike]

Tricky one. Dropping paratroopers on a city is unprecented IRL AFAIK. They are always dropped outside of cities (the Allies needed Eindhoven, Nijmegen and Arnhem but dropped them outside the cities).

Sure, at the scale of Warplan one could argue a hex is not one big city, but also the surroundings which are not built up. The hex however is treated as being entirely urban in the game. So from that perspective it is not unreasonable to not allow paratroopers jump on city hexes IMHO.

Still the problem remains if paratroopers can still move a hex after having been put on the ground. Just drop it besides the city, move one hex and you are done.

[Meteor2]

In Order of Battle, capturing a base is only relevant after some time.
A small flag rising shows that process.
Not a bad solution to show the slowly conversion.

[battlevonwar]

Easier correction, up Italy's Morale 'some'.

[AlvaroSousa]

Why wasn't the paratrooper counter attacked?

Why wasn't there a unit in the backfield as a reserve?

[tyronec]

Why wasn't the paratrooper counter attacked?

Why wasn't there a unit in the backfield as a reserve?

Quite agree, I should have been prepared for it - then there is no problem and no need for anyone to complain about the game system.