Was Tanaka that good?

[rich91a]

I've been playing Scen 16 as the Japs for some time against the AI, game setting hard.

The AI routinely sends bombardment TFs against Lunga.

Keeping a SC TF on station at Lunga with the BBs, strong CAs and a good quantity of destoyers with Tanaka commanding is a very effective counter.

Several times Tanaka has surprised the incoming bombardment TF despite this TF tracking him with radar.

The results are pretty spectacular - low survival rate for the Allied CAs.

Was Tanaka that good?

P.S. it's good to see the AI ties to deal with the protecting SC at Lunga with CVs. <----- Whoa! Praise for the AI!

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by rich91a
I've been playing Scen 16 as the Japs for some time against the AI, game setting hard.

The AI routinely sends bombardment TFs against Lunga.

Keeping a SC TF on station at Lunga with the BBs, strong CAs and a good quantity of destoyers with Tanaka commanding is a very effective counter.

Several times Tanaka has surprised the incoming bombardment TF despite this TF tracking him with radar.

The results are pretty spectacular - low survival rate for the Allied CAs.

Was Tanaka that good?

P.S. it's good to see the AI ties to deal with the protecting SC at Lunga with CVs. <----- Whoa! Praise for the AI!

Whatever 'that good' means. he was VERY VERY good.
He was caught by surprise with his ships loaded with
the wrong ammo, decks littered with supplies for Guadalcanal,
outnumbered and outgunned, and he turned it around
losing only one ship, sinking the Northampton

[Mike_B20]

Maybe he was good, maybe he was just lucky.
I've heard him described as a genius.

Here's a link to a description of Tassafronga.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/btl_tas.htm

Given the quality of the IJN Longlance torpedo his strategy seems pretty obvious, although other commanders didn't seem to have the same 'luck' with them.
Certainly, being able to time a Longlance attack to perfection could qualify as genius I guess.

[Sonny]

Certianly isn't perfect. Tanaka with the Yamato and a few DDs got the "T" crossed by Lee in several CAs and a DDs in my game and was devastated. Only the Yamato survived. Lee took a few hits but only one of his ships went down (unless some sank later which were not reported).

So he is not totally invincible in the game.

[crsutton]

He was very outspoken and not popular within the ranks of the Navy. However, he appeared to have a very firm grasp of the strategic situation, more so than the higher command and he was an excellent tactical officer. However, as a rule all Japanese surface commanders were highly trained and experienced-if a bit unflexible.

[CapAndGown]

Tanaka had two things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-and the possession of excellent torpedos.

Wait, Tanaka had three things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-the possession of excellent torpedos
-and a well rehearsed plan.

Wait, Tanaka had four things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga

Oh, never mind.

[Von_Frag]

Originally posted by cap_and_gown
Tanaka had two things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-and the possession of excellent torpedos.

Wait, Tanaka had three things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga:
-skill
-tenacity
-the possession of excellent torpedos
-and a well rehearsed plan.

Wait, Tanaka had four things going for him at the battle of Tassafaronga

Oh, never mind.

LOL, it is amazing that wargames and Python go so well together.

Von Frag

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Sonny
Certianly isn't perfect. Tanaka with the Yamato and a few DDs got the "T" crossed by Lee in several CAs and a DDs in my game and was devastated. Only the Yamato survived. Lee took a few hits but only one of his ships went down (unless some sank later which were not reported).

So he is not totally invincible in the game.

Was that Tanaka that demolished Scott's CA TF in our SC#19?

[Nimits]

Tanaka was arguably the best surface commander of in the IJN if not of all the combatants. As for his tactics at Tassafaronga being obvious, well, a careful reading of military history will reveal the difference between great and poor commanders is the former's ability to discover and effectively apply the "obvious" solutions to tactcal or strategic problems. If Hooker had been able to recognize and apply the obvious tactic in the Wilderness in 1863, Chancellorsville, and not Gettysburg, would have been remembered as Lee's greatest defeat

[Drex]

It would have been interesting to see how great Tanaka would have become had he remained in this theater. Unfortunately for Japan, his mouth earned him a desk job in Burma and Singapore. His evacuation of over 10000 troops from Guadalcanal without the US knowledge is truly amazing.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Drex
It would have been interesting to see how great Tanaka would have become had he remained in this theater. Unfortunately for Japan, his mouth earned him a desk job in Burma and Singapore. His evacuation of over 10000 troops from Guadalcanal without the US knowledge is truly amazing.

A man like Tanaka would have died at the helm of his ship.
Just like Rommel would have if he had been sent to Russia.

[Mike_B20]

This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.

Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.

Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Mike_B20
This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.

Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.

Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.

But he had radar and he had total surprise. That goes a LONG way to counter poor deployment.

[Drex]

Originally posted by Mike_B20
This worshipping of Tanaka reminds me of Grant's comment at the Second Wilderness when he saw how nervous his subordinates were about facing Lee.
"Anyone would think he was gonna do a double somersault and land in our rear...get some guns up here" or words to that effect.

Sure he had a great result at Tassafronga but to ascribe genius to the results of such a roll of the dice as a torpedo attack seems a bit over the top.

Also, at that time the US was just becoming aware of the Longlance danger and would later develop tactics to counter it.
Wright steered his cruisers in the traditional line ahead manner, without manouvering and got hammered.

Tassafaaronga was just one of his exploits. In my post above, I mention his successful evacuation of the Guadalcanal force with only the loss of one DD and that was by a mine. I believe that was his greatest feat. Surely Tanaka's fame was well earned whereas some others have been worshipped for far less.

[Chiteng]

Originally posted by Drex
Tassafaaronga was just one of his exploits. In my post above, I mention his successful evacuation of the Guadalcanal force with only the loss of one DD and that was by a mine. I believe that was his greatest feat. Surely Tanaka's fame was well earned whereas some others have been worshipped for far less.

Ahh now...Halsey was the bull in the China shop.

At least he was not timid.

[Drex]

TF58 where are you? the world wonders.

[Tanaka]

With Tanaka commanding the surface fleets (without being fired) and Yamamoto and Yamaguchi commanding the air fleets (without being killed)
the war would have been very interesting indeed.

I plan on putting this into effect immediately in WITP.

[Nimits]

The US and Commonwealth would still have won, but it could have provided some intersting what if scenarios.

[RevRick]

Task Force 58, Where Are You... as in the old TV show, Car 54, where are you... Anyone old enough to remember that...

The point has been made that Halsey should have commanded the Battle of the PHillipine Sea, and Spruance the Battle of Leyte Gulf...Ah well, history plays its own games with us...

[Drex]

Unfortunately I remember the show well. It was really bad. Fred Gwin did much better stuff later. Halsey did too.