More Rail/Road Logistics questions

[balto]

I watched even more Youtubers, I still have a lot of major questions about Logistics. With that said, I will limit it to just a few. Thanks in advance for any clarity:

1) How does Rail work when it is placed over a Road network? Does it zero-out the Road Network, or is Rail just used for Logistics and Road for the rest? If Rail over Road has no impact, would it be more beneficial to have a separate Rail line running parallel with Road instead of over top of the road?

2) Does the Traffic Sign thing work for Road and Rail? Is there a separate Stop sign for each when you have a hex with both Rail and Road?

3) What is a Rail Head? I understand it is somewhat of a Supply thing, but does it supercede Road Supply?

4) I feel like I see some incredibly wacky things happening when you have multiple zones (in other words, you have 3 cities and 3 zones). Is there a reason for the Zone thing? Is it just another beta thing that could go away? I ask because in Advanced Tactics (been a while), it was one zone and I do not remember ever being confused by it.

Cannot wait till this is out. Thank you, God of Wargaming.

[balto]

Also, (5) if you have 3 cities connected in a straight line (cities A---B---C), do you need a rail station in all three cities or just "A" and "C"?

(6) What happens when you build Rail and you do not have a Rail Station?

[DasTactic]

I'll try to answer the questions. Logistics has changed quite a bit over the last couple of weeks.

1. Road and rail both use different logistics resources and each is constrained to its own conduit type (trucks for roads and trains for rail). Now rail needs a start and an endpoint before it can all be used logistically but it can go much further than a road network. Typically you need a truck station to push supplies and reinforcements out to your troops.

2. At this stage, the traffic sign affects both road and rail but this is something the beta testers are a little concerned about as it doesn't allow finessing of transport lines.

3. The rail-head is a cheap version of the rail station and can be built outside cities. It is a way to allow logistics to be accessible at a different point along the rail line.

4. The zones are controlled by a city if you are a player. So they must work hand in hand. The city is just the administrative hub of the zone and if the distances are too large between the city and other assets you get an administrative penalty. The governor of zones provide different bonuses so it is a lot more complex now than in ATG.

5. You would need a station at B if you needed to use more than 10% of the logistics of the rail network. Rail does allow 10% to be used like a normal road (mainly to allow buildings to be built at the end of the line.

6. You need some sort of rail logistics at either end of a rail line otherwise you can only use 10% of the LIS.

Hope that answers the questions.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: DasTactic
Now rail needs a start and an endpoint before it can all be used logistically ...

It creates too many other issues to change, but I would bet this is a source of confusion by new players. Perhaps the rail line is highlighted in a way or the user is somehow informed a line is not working because it lacks stations at either end--in a logistics view/overlay.

ORIGINAL: DasTactic
The rail-head is a cheap version of the rail station and can be built outside cities. It is a way to allow logistics to be accessible at a different point along the rail line.

From only watching, I was under the impression these rail stations were the basis for the rail stoplight system--like a rail switch. I guess that was another bad assumption.

ORIGINAL: DasTactic
You would need a station at B if you needed to use more than 10% of the logistics of the rail network. Rail does allow 10% to be used like a normal road (mainly to allow buildings to be built at the end of the line.

So the size of the rail head/station is the stop light percentage?


Finally, does the rail line give a movement bonus to units and/or cancel terrain-based maluses?

[DasTactic]

So the size of the rail head/station is the stop light percentage?

Railheads can only ever be Level I and all they provide is 5 maglevPoints (the rail logistics points). This is basically so you can very quickly build a station of sorts along the line to access the logistics of the line itself.

Rail Stations at level I provide 1000 magelevPoints as well as 100 maglevFreeAp but cost more to build and maintain. Rail Stations can eventually be built up to Level VII providing 28,000 maglevPoints and 160 maglevFreeAp.

Rail only degrades at 2 action points per hex so it can extend a long way across the map before you start to take attrition against your logistics.

So if you only need up to 1000 logistics points to interact with another zone you could get away with one Station and one Railhead.

Finally, does the rail line give a movement bonus to units and/or cancel terrain-based maluses?

There are two types of movement (like in Advanced Tactics). Normal movement has units travel under their own steam. Strategic movement uses and points left in the logistics network and so can potentially move units very long distances. Terrain maluses are cancelled by road/rail so getting a road through a mountain or desert can be game-changing.

[balto]

Das, thank you for your time. About the differing zones - Do they mesh seamlessly with each of your other zones as far as Logistics and Resources? Or is each zone sort of a standalone type deal? I ask because I am pretty sure I saw several youtubers who were confused about some of their units being in Supply (Fuel, etc..,) despite having loads of resources and Logistic Points. I believe some said something to the effect "well, I cannot figure out what is going on, it must be how the zones interact or lack of interaction."

Not sure what to say except again, why the zones? Just make it one big ass zone? I assume I am missing something.

[DasTactic]

The SHQ now performs the task of the old ATG 'single zone' while the zones are administrative areas that need to get their resources back to the SHQ. Basically:
- Public assets require resources as maintenance.
- Zone requests resources from the SHQ to feed the assets if it doesn't have any in stock.
- SHQ uses LIS to send the requests if it can.
Then...
- Assets create goods with bonuses/maluses from governors, distance, manpower, maintenance etc.
- Goods appear at the zone city.
- Zone tries to ship the goods to the SHQ if there is LIS available.
And...
- Units request supplies and replacements from the SHQ.
- SHQ tries to ship out supplies and replacements if there is LIS available.

So you must have enough LIS to send and receive the resources to the zone - and enough LIS to supply your army. If you get it wrong you can end up with large stockpiles sitting in your zones. It does work but it is very different than ATG so you can't use that as a guide.

[balto]

Hi Das, again, thank you.

So if I understand this correctly - say you have three zones; Zone A (capital/SHQ), Zone B (next to Zone A and attached to Zone A), and Zone C (which is attached to Zone B). The setup is A--B--C, in a straight line.

Is it correct to assume that if Zone C needs something from Zone B (lets say Fuel); the present Logistics systems would dictate that instead of Zone B's Fuel just moving to Zone C, it must know go from Zone B, to Zone A, which then redistributes it back to Zone B, enroute to Zone C? Or in other words instead of B--C, it must now go B--A--B--C?

If that is correct, is that how it worked in ATG? Can't be, I do not remember being lost in ATG., but maybe I was.., I have not played in a long time.

Thanks,

[balto]

Also, you state "If you get it wrong you can end up with large stockpiles sitting in your zones." How can you tell if their stuff is stockpiled in a Zone? There is no SHQ in the other zones, so where do you find out where there "stuff" is sitting?

[Vic]

There is an ITEMS tab for each Zone in the bottom part of the interface

[balto]

Thank you, God of Wargaming.

[DasTactic]

So if I understand this correctly - say you have three zones; Zone A (capital/SHQ), Zone B (next to Zone A and attached to Zone A), and Zone C (which is attached to Zone B). The setup is A--B--C, in a straight line.

Is it correct to assume that if Zone C needs something from Zone B (lets say Fuel); the present Logistics systems would dictate that instead of Zone B's Fuel just moving to Zone C, it must know go from Zone B, to Zone A, which then redistributes it back to Zone B, enroute to Zone C? Or in other words instead of B--C, it must now go B--A--B--C?

If that is correct, is that how it worked in ATG? Can't be, I do not remember being lost in ATG., but maybe I was.., I have not played in a long time.

My understanding is that zones will manage their own resources if they have them on-hand but that distribution would come from the SHQ for any resources a zone doesn't generate itself.

[balto]

To further complicate the Logistics thing and how it interacts with the zones.., I have seen only 2 or 3 minutes of Youtubers click the Bottleneck button. I am pretty sure all those that did are 100% confused. I am wondering if this is related to how the Zones interact with one another because that feature is also not in Advanced Tactics. So yeah, when SE comes out, hopefully how all that works comes out.

[KingHalford]

The bottleneck button basically shows you where the supply points are being used the most heavily, so you can plan on building more truck/rail supply points to help improve the supply flow.

[Daza99]

Rail heads. When do we need to build them?

I looked up online a definition of the word:

1. The farthest point on a railroad to which rails have been laid.
3. (Military) military the point at which material and personnel are transferred from rail to another conveyance

So when wanting to connect one city to another a Rail Station is sufficient at each city?

Lets say we have a northern front where fighting is going on and you want to the fastest means to resupply units and higher volume, would you build a railhead close to the front? so the line has an end point, is this the purpose?

[Malevolence]

Regarding rail movement (and truck), see also: Mechanized troops should be movable strategically using rails

[lloydster4]

Daza, not a good idea to bump a 2 month old thread on logistics. The game hadn't even been released back then.

[Daza99]

ORIGINAL: lloydster4

Daza, not a good idea to bump a 2 month old thread on logistics. The game hadn't even been released back then.

I didn't realise this is a pre-release thread. I will post in the thread Malevolence gave above if i have further questions.