Paris France -- Subsequent Surrender Issues

[MJY]

Dear Tech Support,

I just replayed a turn in a match against Hartmann301. We are deep into 1943 of the 1939 Campaign Game. The game has gone back and forth at several points, but something completely unexpected has just happened in the context of one of those back and forth moments. Specifically, on the October 15, 1943 turn, I liberated Paris. And on the next turn, the Axis retook Paris. That produced one odd result. For some reason, all my towns in France dropped to 3 supply points -- even though they had previously been at 5 supply points -- and had been so for some time.

Although annoyed (and planning to post to the Forum about this issue), I was not too worried about that effect, but the next turn was even stranger. On the November 6, 1943 turn, I liberated Paris for the second time only to again lose it back to the Axis on the following turn. This time, however, the result of the Axis taking Paris was radically different. When the Axis re-re-took Paris this second time, all the towns of France that I had previously "liberated" suddenly "surrendered" and went over to the Axis (like they do when France falls in 1940). Now I am left with much of my force basically cut off and out of supply.

It is my understanding that this is not supposed to happen with "subsequent" surrenders -- if that is what happened here. I recall this issue was identified as a glitch in an earlier iteration of the game (although I cannot recall which one) and was changed. And I am even more confused as to different results would follow seemingly identical events (e.g., if this is intentional why didn't it occur the first time we exchanged control over this city).

I look forward to your response.

MJY

[Hubert Cater]

Hi MJY,

Sounds like France was liberated, then you lost control of Paris (a primary supply center) but France did not surrender. In game terms this would mean that your resources that were connected to Paris would have dropped and in your case to 3 as they would now be considered cutoff if not connected to another supply source such as Cherbourg etc.

When Paris was captured the subsequent time, France surrendered and the loss of territory would be consistent with what happens to a surrendered country.

What can't happen a second time is that a country cannot surrender a second time due to national morale reaching zero, and any special national morale scripts that would potentially reduce national morale would also not apply if a country has already surrendered.

But outside of that, regular surrender behaviour would still apply and this is what it looks like happened in your game.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

[MJY]

Hubert,

OK, thanks for the fast response -- although I can't say I am in agreement with it.

These negative impacts arising from a temporary (i.e., one turn) liberation of a capital seem disproportionate. Basically it is saying that you should not even try to capture these locations unless you can guarantee holding them 100% -- which won't always be the case. You would never make that argument about any other city or resource, so why make it here? It also strikes me as unhistorical -- especially when compared to actual (although admittedly rare) situations such as that of Seoul and Pyongyang during the Korean War where control of the former changed hands four times (without producing a surrender) and the latter changed hands twice (without producing a surrender).

MJY

[Hubert Cater]

Hi MJY,

It's a tricky one as it is just a general game mechanic on liberations and surrenders (same for all countries), but it's a fair point in that it can work out unfavourably when liberations and surrenders happen in quick succession over a very short period of time.

Something to think about,
Hubert