This thread is NOT related to any other =)
It seems to me we have a game where the Japanese because
he is unable to get substantive reinforcement, is forced to be conservative in play, or .....
Assume the mental mindset that any ship/troop commited to action is already dead. Its just a matter of time.
Comments?
Risk Management
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Risk Management
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
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'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Japanese Styles
Hi, I'll make my remarks using scenario's 17 and 19 (Long Campaigns)
The Japanese have several decisions to make before beginning play. Also the reinforcement schedule has to be consulted. (Variable schedules have a large impact on early possible choices.)
Japan will at the out set have superior force. Over time (depending on commitment levels if Japan has 200 percent commitment things are better then at 100 percent)
Because of the above Japan has a chance to capture at least one enemy base before (or in spite of) the allies can prepare a defense. (referring to a base occupied by the allies at start not those empty places)
Most Japanese choose Port Moresby. Capturing PM relieves Japan of many early allied threats
So to start Japan has to be the opposite of conservative. They must go on the offensive and hope the allied player actually tries to oppose them.
As time passes and the Allied play catches up in material. The Japanese have to become more conservative. Look for opportunity to exploit allied mistakes (often the allied player will try to go too fast and leave an opening).
Japan must never leave ships in port in range of allied bombers. Japan must learn to use economy of force. Just because Yamato is sitting at Truk does not mean she needs to be placed in the first TF headed south. Light combat TF's are very effective and do not risk valuable ships. (If the USN is sending 4 CA then match that. ) Don't fight battles where your not sure what your up against. (There is a period between the last Japanese offensive and the first Allied where the two players try to fight at enemy bases. Here is where Japan must not take risks. He needs the ships to protect his bases. (But you still need to keep the enemy off balance. Don't let him be able to send unescorted TF's between his bases.)
The closer the end of the campaign the more Japan has to maintain adequate forces for defense. It might justify risking heavy fleet units to protect a base. (New Guinea is better protected by maintaining the threat of IJN intervention then actually sending the ships)
However the Solomon's demand a fight. Once the Allies are firmly on the offensive Japan is able to send every unneed ship home (and free up commitment points for other ships)
Only retain enough transports to keep safe bases supplied. (use fast transport for forward areas and barges for the bases within 1 day of the supply points)
As the ships in the fast transport role accumulate damage (10 sys) return them to Japan.
Only keep enough subs for early warning. (They just get sunk trying to engage in enemy waters)
The Japanese have several decisions to make before beginning play. Also the reinforcement schedule has to be consulted. (Variable schedules have a large impact on early possible choices.)
Japan will at the out set have superior force. Over time (depending on commitment levels if Japan has 200 percent commitment things are better then at 100 percent)
Because of the above Japan has a chance to capture at least one enemy base before (or in spite of) the allies can prepare a defense. (referring to a base occupied by the allies at start not those empty places)
Most Japanese choose Port Moresby. Capturing PM relieves Japan of many early allied threats
So to start Japan has to be the opposite of conservative. They must go on the offensive and hope the allied player actually tries to oppose them.
As time passes and the Allied play catches up in material. The Japanese have to become more conservative. Look for opportunity to exploit allied mistakes (often the allied player will try to go too fast and leave an opening).
Japan must never leave ships in port in range of allied bombers. Japan must learn to use economy of force. Just because Yamato is sitting at Truk does not mean she needs to be placed in the first TF headed south. Light combat TF's are very effective and do not risk valuable ships. (If the USN is sending 4 CA then match that. ) Don't fight battles where your not sure what your up against. (There is a period between the last Japanese offensive and the first Allied where the two players try to fight at enemy bases. Here is where Japan must not take risks. He needs the ships to protect his bases. (But you still need to keep the enemy off balance. Don't let him be able to send unescorted TF's between his bases.)
The closer the end of the campaign the more Japan has to maintain adequate forces for defense. It might justify risking heavy fleet units to protect a base. (New Guinea is better protected by maintaining the threat of IJN intervention then actually sending the ships)
However the Solomon's demand a fight. Once the Allies are firmly on the offensive Japan is able to send every unneed ship home (and free up commitment points for other ships)
Only retain enough transports to keep safe bases supplied. (use fast transport for forward areas and barges for the bases within 1 day of the supply points)
As the ships in the fast transport role accumulate damage (10 sys) return them to Japan.
Only keep enough subs for early warning. (They just get sunk trying to engage in enemy waters)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
oh Tactics-meister...... 
one question. The Allied player in particular has the ability to uber-build a target base with ENG units in a very short period of time....this would also apply in a situation where the base is already developed and only needs to be wrested away (such as a developed Lunga)
If your main units are sitting safe at Truk....how do you overcome the time factor?
Some of my (albeit limited) PBEM play gives me the impression of Russian bridgeheads when facing the Allied war machine (i.e. the old saying, if you dont eliminate a Russkie bridgehead within 24 hours....you never will)
It would seem that by the time the fleet units arrive from truk the Allies will already be so firmly established as to invite catastrophe.
one question. The Allied player in particular has the ability to uber-build a target base with ENG units in a very short period of time....this would also apply in a situation where the base is already developed and only needs to be wrested away (such as a developed Lunga)
If your main units are sitting safe at Truk....how do you overcome the time factor?
Some of my (albeit limited) PBEM play gives me the impression of Russian bridgeheads when facing the Allied war machine (i.e. the old saying, if you dont eliminate a Russkie bridgehead within 24 hours....you never will)
It would seem that by the time the fleet units arrive from truk the Allies will already be so firmly established as to invite catastrophe.
Defending Lunga
Hi, The TF that defends Lunga homeports at Munda or Shortlands.
(Check the range circle for the TF to make sure it is close enough to react.) If Lunga is threatend you'll know it. (The allies will have first secured Irau or Neva and have long range bombers making attacks) Japan should have 2-3 reaction TF's (better then 1 large one) and reserve ships in port. (Shortland is beyond enemy range while PM held). After each battle replace the lost damage ships.)
I only mean hold units at Truk during the period they are not warrented down south. (If your search/recon discovers allied BB then dispatch a few of your own.) You can while preforming recon of L'ville or Noumea discover enemy heavy units in port. It would then be justified for moving a few Long Range Bomber groups to Lunga to conduct a port attack. (at night)
(Check the range circle for the TF to make sure it is close enough to react.) If Lunga is threatend you'll know it. (The allies will have first secured Irau or Neva and have long range bombers making attacks) Japan should have 2-3 reaction TF's (better then 1 large one) and reserve ships in port. (Shortland is beyond enemy range while PM held). After each battle replace the lost damage ships.)
I only mean hold units at Truk during the period they are not warrented down south. (If your search/recon discovers allied BB then dispatch a few of your own.) You can while preforming recon of L'ville or Noumea discover enemy heavy units in port. It would then be justified for moving a few Long Range Bomber groups to Lunga to conduct a port attack. (at night)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, The TF that defends Lunga homeports at Munda or Shortlands.
(Check the range circle for the TF to make sure it is close enough to react.) If Lunga is threatend you'll know it. (The allies will have first secured Irau or Neva and have long range bombers making attacks)
heh....unless your SoulBlazer (ah, fond memories of our Unreal Tournament style deathmatch in UV)
Ok....that strategy i utilized to a degree in my last PBEM. If PM is secured, its even better as the Allies cant hit Rabaul anymore making it safer to station ships.
One snag i've run into though is that to be within react range requires some TF's to be closer than Shortlands (or even Munda i believe) I've been burned a couple times by sneak attacks from Allied CV's seeing a free lunch consisting of unshielded cruisers and DD's
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SoulBlazer
- Posts: 766
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- Location: Providence RI
Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Nikademus
heh....unless your SoulBlazer (ah, fond memories of our Unreal Tournament style deathmatch in UV)
Ok....that strategy i utilized to a degree in my last PBEM. If PM is secured, its even better as the Allies cant hit Rabaul anymore making it safer to station ships.
One snag i've run into though is that to be within react range requires some TF's to be closer than Shortlands (or even Munda i believe) I've been burned a couple times by sneak attacks from Allied CV's seeing a free lunch consisting of unshielded cruisers and DD's
Hi, No the surface TF's react from Shortlands or Munda. (meaning enemy CV's looking for goodies have to come well within Japanese LBA)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, No the surface TF's react from Shortlands or Munda. (meaning enemy CV's looking for goodies have to come well within Japanese LBA)
But then you lose cripples on the way back to Shortland
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Voltaire
'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'
French Priest
"Statistic
Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, No the surface TF's react from Shortlands or Munda. (meaning enemy CV's looking for goodies have to come well within Japanese LBA)
hmmm.....my TF's have never reacted from so far a distance....perhaps my inspiration rating is not high enough :p
Soulblazer vs Uberlord...master of Disaster
Originally posted by SoulBlazer
You might as well tell the story of what happened in that game, Nik -- it will be of intrest to many people.
To: Admiral Soulblazer
From: CINCPAC
re: operation WATCHTOWER
You are cleared to begin WATCHTOWER starting at 0400 hours on 8/27/42. Be advised of the importance of this, the first US counter-offensive against the Empire of Japan. Do not take unnecessary risks, and attempt to minimize losses. Rest assured Admiral that we are all confident here that you have taken the necessary precautions to soften up the target prior to setting sail with your invasion fleet [stop]
That being stated we need not then have to remind you of latest intel specs that have come in from PARTYPOOPER regarding the dense minefields, the additional troops recently landed on WATCHTOWER, the activation of its airfield, the heavy radio traffic detected from Rabaul and Shortlands, and last but not least, the size 4 airfield at Shortlands or it's auxilary strip detected at Munda. [Stop]
No...we are confident you have already taken care of those little details. [stop]
Good luck Admiral and godspeed. [stop]
****
To: UBERLORD.....master of Chaos.....Lord of murder.....and pilferer of sno-cone machines
From: Deskjockeys @ Tokyo
Re: YANKEES!
Greetings and salutations your Uber-ness. It is with stoic trepedations that I must report to you of disturbing portents arrising out of the office of Vigilent Detection (V.D. for short)
Be forewarned oh beefy one, that enemy carriers have been spotted SE of our glorious new resort located on the sunny side of Guadalcanal. V.D. predicts that this will merely be a pinprick raid designed to disrupt the building of our new Spa on Lunga and not to worry. We know of course that your emminence has been working night and day building up the defenses of the area and that no foolish Yankee would ever have the audacity to sail straight in with an invasion TF.
Rest assured.......we know that you will nevertheless, treat this report with all the seriousness that is due. Good luck as you steam out on the mighty Junyo to meet the imperialists.
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AmiralLaurent
- Posts: 3351
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:53 pm
- Location: Near Paris, France
I agree with Mogami. Shortlands or Rabaul is close enough to base ships to oppose landings.
They're not supposed to react automatically. But they're close enough to receive orders to do it your patrol planes see an invasion TF approaching.
I keep as much japanese subs as I can. They are hunting cripples after any action. And also chasing transports on the Allied rears, so holding Allied escorts away from the frontline. But they will never try to defend an invasion hex.
My personnal view is to heavily defend Irau and to try to disburd Allied building in Nevea, Gavigalma, Wunpuko or even Lunganville with IJN raids when convoys are nearby. Once US has a fully operationnal base in Irau, Lunga is dead meat. That is only when IJN is leading in CV airpower.
They're not supposed to react automatically. But they're close enough to receive orders to do it your patrol planes see an invasion TF approaching.
I keep as much japanese subs as I can. They are hunting cripples after any action. And also chasing transports on the Allied rears, so holding Allied escorts away from the frontline. But they will never try to defend an invasion hex.
My personnal view is to heavily defend Irau and to try to disburd Allied building in Nevea, Gavigalma, Wunpuko or even Lunganville with IJN raids when convoys are nearby. Once US has a fully operationnal base in Irau, Lunga is dead meat. That is only when IJN is leading in CV airpower.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Chiteng
But then you lose cripples on the way back to Shortland
Hi, Thats what the size 3 port at Munda is for (not to mention Lunga. If the ship is in danger of sinking it might as well go into port at Lunga)
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, The TF that defends Lunga homeports at Munda or Shortlands.
(Check the range circle for the TF to make sure it is close enough to react.) If Lunga is threatend you'll know it. (The allies will have first secured Irau or Neva and have long range bombers making attacks) Japan should have 2-3 reaction TF's (better then 1 large one) and reserve ships in port. ............
I have tried this (although usually with two TFs) and a lot of the time only one TF reacts and gets defeated because it goes in piecemeal. That is one will react and do some damage at a high price and the other won't react to clean up. So I gave up and usually only use one TF.
Quote from Snigbert -
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
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SoulBlazer
- Posts: 766
- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:28 am
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ROTFL to Nik!
Well, it was'nt QUITE like that. But I had expected Watchtower to go ahead without quite a bloodbath. I did'nt know that Nik had packed that many planes into Shortland, that he was doing active and sneaky mining operations that I could'nt sweep no matter HOW many times that I tried, or that there were so many troops on the islands so early.
Even after defeating his carriers, my carrier force was reduced in half so it was strecthed thin trying to hit Japanese naval targets. There were numerous surface fights and slaughters of transports by ships and airplanes on both sides.
I finally took Lunga but the cost was so high that it would really retard my operations for the rest of the game so we agreed to call it for a draw.
It shocked me that Nik would defend Lunga and Tulagi so much and so heavy, and I was unprepared for the results, combined with very good Japanese subs and the need for me to push forward once the troops were landed.
It was NOT a unprepared invasion!
Well, it was'nt QUITE like that.
But I had expected Watchtower to go ahead without quite a bloodbath. I did'nt know that Nik had packed that many planes into Shortland, that he was doing active and sneaky mining operations that I could'nt sweep no matter HOW many times that I tried, or that there were so many troops on the islands so early.Even after defeating his carriers, my carrier force was reduced in half so it was strecthed thin trying to hit Japanese naval targets. There were numerous surface fights and slaughters of transports by ships and airplanes on both sides.
I finally took Lunga but the cost was so high that it would really retard my operations for the rest of the game so we agreed to call it for a draw.
It shocked me that Nik would defend Lunga and Tulagi so much and so heavy, and I was unprepared for the results, combined with very good Japanese subs and the need for me to push forward once the troops were landed.
It was NOT a unprepared invasion!
The US Navy could probaly win a war without coffee, but would prefer not to try -- Samuel Morison
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Thats what the size 3 port at Munda is for (not to mention Lunga. If the ship is in danger of sinking it might as well go into port at Lunga)
And if the enemy captures the port while your ship is in it then it will be teleported back to Tokyo. The manual says it will be destroyed but don't worry; it's wrong. Your ship will be safe back at the home islands. (I know this is true for teh allies. I just assume it is true for Japan as well.)
Yamamoto
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Yamamoto
And if the enemy captures the port while your ship is in it then it will be teleported back to Tokyo. The manual says it will be destroyed but don't worry; it's wrong. Your ship will be safe back at the home islands. (I know this is true for teh allies. I just assume it is true for Japan as well.)
Yamamoto
Hi, I have no fear of losing a base while I have surface TF's to defend it. If a ship is damaged in a fight at Lunga it can go into port long enough to put out fires and reduce some of the flooding.
(enough to make it to the next port (Munda is around 8 hexes a ship moves at least 2 per day)
I think the Japanese must fight like RE Lee. They have to risk more then they can afford to lose. But without such risk they will undoubtly lose.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
Quick summary. IJN CAN defend its perimeter in some circumstances.
1. Allies loose CVs and PM early (CVs will return in 43 after LOTS of repairs.
2. Allies need to steal a forward base because the IJN has just had 6 months to prepare whatever it wants, wherever it wants without ANY real disruption from me - even the allied LBA and first wave of lightnings was MASSACRED, crippling any long range offensive airpower the allies had for months.
3. Allies have LOTS of short ranged stuff sitting around bases doing bugger all. So I tried to take Lunga, usings almost unlimited destroyers, CLs, CAs, and support BBs to fast transport in hundreds of ships.
4. Allied ships in tfs with APDs were a little too slow and didn't escape the enemy CV's detection on the way in. Bad news for them.
5. To move fast enough to be in and out (safe from Lunga and lots of IJN CVs) I couldn't include MSWs in the TFs. I didn't loose many ships to mines - but I had 50 or 60 ships slam into them and then get pounded by enemy air power.
6. The troops that managed to survive this (lets say, one in 5 so far) get ashore to find Irau is a level 9 fort, but without an airfield or a port. The also find 20,000 enemy troops ready for them. This number increases to 40000 as the IJN proceeds to FT his own troops in.
7. Massive surface fleet battles, every turn for the duration of the siege as long as the FT groups are racing in and out of Irau, all of thme hitting mines, then settling in to shoot at each other. The carnage is incredible - and both sides suffer very badly, although the few APs I trie dot slip in during the confusion suffered even more (drowning whole divisions). Although the result of the battles was slightly in the USNs favour, because the next day would dawn and there werent enough lightnings out of Nevea to cover all the ships limping home . . . you get the picture as 250+ betties at Lunga took off.
8. Cost the IJN 5 BBs, a few CAs and maybe a dozen DDs. Cost me 2 BBs, 6 CAs, about thirty DDs, and every other surface ship in theatre damaged bad enough to be sent home.
9. After a month long siege, which cost the IJN about 15000 troops (rest were evacuated), and me about 100000 (not kidding), I was left with a shithole called Irau, no port, no airbase, no eng units in any condition to bulid anything, no supplies, but lots and lots of mines still hanging around. Was another 3 months before Irau was "on-line" as an airbase, and the constant evacuating of destroyed units and shoving supplies and eng units into a puny port without air cover . . . Lunga strikes again.
Even factoring in that later the IJN lost Lunga to a MUCH more successful invasion - that "victory" at Irau cost me so many troops, so many ships and so much time that it is now the end of 43 and I'm 3500 points behind, and unlikely to catch up (a few last ditch efforts to steal bases underway).
Defense in depth works just fine.
1. Allies loose CVs and PM early (CVs will return in 43 after LOTS of repairs.
2. Allies need to steal a forward base because the IJN has just had 6 months to prepare whatever it wants, wherever it wants without ANY real disruption from me - even the allied LBA and first wave of lightnings was MASSACRED, crippling any long range offensive airpower the allies had for months.
3. Allies have LOTS of short ranged stuff sitting around bases doing bugger all. So I tried to take Lunga, usings almost unlimited destroyers, CLs, CAs, and support BBs to fast transport in hundreds of ships.
4. Allied ships in tfs with APDs were a little too slow and didn't escape the enemy CV's detection on the way in. Bad news for them.
5. To move fast enough to be in and out (safe from Lunga and lots of IJN CVs) I couldn't include MSWs in the TFs. I didn't loose many ships to mines - but I had 50 or 60 ships slam into them and then get pounded by enemy air power.
6. The troops that managed to survive this (lets say, one in 5 so far) get ashore to find Irau is a level 9 fort, but without an airfield or a port. The also find 20,000 enemy troops ready for them. This number increases to 40000 as the IJN proceeds to FT his own troops in.
7. Massive surface fleet battles, every turn for the duration of the siege as long as the FT groups are racing in and out of Irau, all of thme hitting mines, then settling in to shoot at each other. The carnage is incredible - and both sides suffer very badly, although the few APs I trie dot slip in during the confusion suffered even more (drowning whole divisions). Although the result of the battles was slightly in the USNs favour, because the next day would dawn and there werent enough lightnings out of Nevea to cover all the ships limping home . . . you get the picture as 250+ betties at Lunga took off.
8. Cost the IJN 5 BBs, a few CAs and maybe a dozen DDs. Cost me 2 BBs, 6 CAs, about thirty DDs, and every other surface ship in theatre damaged bad enough to be sent home.
9. After a month long siege, which cost the IJN about 15000 troops (rest were evacuated), and me about 100000 (not kidding), I was left with a shithole called Irau, no port, no airbase, no eng units in any condition to bulid anything, no supplies, but lots and lots of mines still hanging around. Was another 3 months before Irau was "on-line" as an airbase, and the constant evacuating of destroyed units and shoving supplies and eng units into a puny port without air cover . . . Lunga strikes again.
Even factoring in that later the IJN lost Lunga to a MUCH more successful invasion - that "victory" at Irau cost me so many troops, so many ships and so much time that it is now the end of 43 and I'm 3500 points behind, and unlikely to catch up (a few last ditch efforts to steal bases underway).
Defense in depth works just fine.
With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?
Irau
Hi, For me Irau is the key to the game. As Japan I feel secure as long as I have this base. Any Allied move towards capturing it will provoke the most violent response. As the Allies once I have Irau secure I know I will win the game.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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Admiral_Arctic
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:22 pm
- Location: Nonamia
I also bounced Lunkan's invasion of GG killing the entire land unit component. And then management to sneak many 1000AP to rotate regiments with fresh ones.
But I was surprised at how quickly he took Lunga off me once he invaded. Once he took Irau, I withdrew all my baseforces from Lunga and the planes returned to Truk too.
GG and Shortlands still fly the Emperor's flag. But BeauGUNville might be attacked soon.
The main frustration for me is that from early July- late Oct 1943, I have recieved very few surface combat ships even though the reinforcement predictor is on high (and only sometimes on medium). The AI keeps sending the CS, HEAPS of AP and TK, AV. Plenty of surface ships are waiting repaired in Japan (3xBB,6xCA,8xCL, tons of DD) but none are sent. I only have 2 CA, 2 CL, 11DD as my entire surface fleet. Also I sent the CV back to Japan for repairs in June 1943 and only 4 CV and 2CVL have ever returned (though they are not on map any more).
But I was surprised at how quickly he took Lunga off me once he invaded. Once he took Irau, I withdrew all my baseforces from Lunga and the planes returned to Truk too.
GG and Shortlands still fly the Emperor's flag. But BeauGUNville might be attacked soon.
The main frustration for me is that from early July- late Oct 1943, I have recieved very few surface combat ships even though the reinforcement predictor is on high (and only sometimes on medium). The AI keeps sending the CS, HEAPS of AP and TK, AV. Plenty of surface ships are waiting repaired in Japan (3xBB,6xCA,8xCL, tons of DD) but none are sent. I only have 2 CA, 2 CL, 11DD as my entire surface fleet. Also I sent the CV back to Japan for repairs in June 1943 and only 4 CV and 2CVL have ever returned (though they are not on map any more).
I'm a hazard to myself.
Want. Take. Have.
Want. Take. Have.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Defending Lunga
Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, I have no fear of losing a base while I have surface TF's to defend it. If a ship is damaged in a fight at Lunga it can go into port long enough to put out fires and reduce some of the flooding.
(enough to make it to the next port (Munda is around 8 hexes a ship moves at least 2 per day)
I think the Japanese must fight like RE Lee. They have to risk more then they can afford to lose. But without such risk they will undoubtly lose.
I think this is the best analogy in this whole thread. The Japanese player must be willing to be agressive at the proper times and willing to take risks to have a chance. However, like any good poker player, the first rule is always, never risk more than you can afford to lose.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg