The Motherland Calls! (no guctony please)

[CapAndGown]

Grand Campaign, FOW (of course), no TB control

[CapAndGown]

June 22, 1941

The perfidious Hitlerites launched a surprise invasion of our dear motherland on this day. Within a week they had captured Riga, Minsk and Lvov while encircling virtually all of the Western Military District and destroying most of the Baltic Military District. Only the Kiev Military District was able to slow down the invaders and even achieve a pocket of our own (although that will not last). The major pocket around Bialystok was opened, creating a corridor through which various support units such as engineers and artillery were able to escape.

Stavka spent most of its attention creating new supply depots while disbanding those that looked like they would be overrun within the next week. Many new airfields were created in anticipation of a continued German advance. We did not want to start new airfields very close to the front because that would just hand the Germans premade fields. We did create a number east of the Dnepr around Kiev, some more around Rzhev-Vyazma, a few east of the Volkhov, and quite a few east of Moscow.

We launched our first counter-attack of the war but only achieve 1.6:1 odds. We are not going to just Sir Robin!

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Stavka spent most of its attention creating new supply depots while disbanding those that looked like they would be overrun within the next week.[/img]

Aha, I didn't know that you can disband depots. Maybe that is part of the reason why Germany doesn't seem to have many supply issues in my game, lol.

The start looks fairly good for Soviets in the South/Center in particular. He activated the southern front. It seems better for Germany in the north.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

June 22, 1941

.... The major pocket around Bialystok was opened, creating a corridor through which various support units such as engineers and artillery were able to escape.

...

nicely done, my current opponent almost pulled precisely that line on me but failed by one hex, but then I tend to constrict the Bialystok pocket a wee bit more than he has done

that 1.6:1 will produce some nice rewards, it will have virtually no MP left (plus being isolated), the rules in 22.1.3 apply in this context. You've also removed half its remaining CPP (23.2.2)

[Beethoven1]

Are you going to put these on youtube also? Your other ones for Germany are very good, and I don't think anyone else has done a youtube playthrough for the Soviets yet.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

Are you going to put these on youtube also? Your other ones for Germany are very good, and I don't think anyone else has done a youtube playthrough for the Soviets yet.

No, no plans. This turn took precisely 50% of eternity to do. Putting it on youtube would be a) boring to most people and b) stretch the time out to eternity plus 10. (Maybe it would not have taken so long if I had ever played this before, but the Soviets are completely new to me in WitE2.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

Stavka spent most of its attention creating new supply depots while disbanding those that looked like they would be overrun within the next week.[/img]

Aha, I didn't know that you can disband depots. Maybe that is part of the reason why Germany doesn't seem to have many supply issues in my game, lol.

The start looks fairly good for Soviets in the South/Center in particular. He activated the southern front. It seems better for Germany in the north.

Ya, awesome job disbanding those depots. I ran over many as the Germans 2nd and 3rd turns. Think Scorched earth!

[CapAndGown]

June 29, 1941

These turns are taking forever to do. I was going to do some more to organize my airforce this turn, then forgot after spending an inordinate amount of time trying organize my command structure. In order to streamline and simplify things I decided I would get rid of almost all my corps HQs. Any HQ that did not have a decent leader was set to 50% max TOE and sent to the national reserve. So Rokosovsky and Belov get to stay on the field for a few more turns but most of the idiots commanding the Red Army were retired to Siberia. Now almost everyone reports directly an army HQ. Also, based on my WitE1 experience, every front needs to have 4-5 armies. That has not changed due to the command capacity of the various HQs remaining the same as before. Southern Front in particular is going to need two more army HQs (I assume that the Coastal Corp group will convert soon enough to an army, while I already have 9th army on hand.)

I actually made two leadership changes this turn, though not the kind I would have liked. I decided to relocate my HQs trapped in the Bialystok pocket. Unfortunately, several of the leaders died in process, which was not necessarily a bad thing, but then two of them got replaced by really good leaders such as Vasilevsky and Tolbukhin. Well that would have been nice except those HQs were sitting on the edge of the Pripyat and in imminent danger of being overrun again, putting those leaders at risk. So I downgraded the leaders of those HQ to some of the worst schmucks I could find until they were out of danger.

In the north the Soviets had their first successful counter attack of the war. We isolated a regiment of the 36th Motorized division and then routed it.

The Germans also motorized at least infantry division and sent it rampaging into Estonia. We reacted by isolating it and reconverting a lot of the hexes it converted. The Germans are motorizing a lot of their infantry divisions. I am hoping that this will cost them in many more vehicle losses.

[CapAndGown]

In the center the Germans captured Vitebsk, unfortunately. 20th Motorized, 7th Panzer and 26th Infantry (which had no doubt been motorized to reach this far, this fast) launched a hasty attack against a rifle division and a depleted tank division and achieved 45:1 odds. Yuck.

We have set up a line along the Dnepr, but I am afraid it will be breached next turn around Gomel. I have a bunch of reserves set to arrive around Gomel next turn.

One thing about the German deployment that strikes me is just how dispersed they are in the North and Center. A panzer corps here, a panzer corps there, with no real concentration anywhere. Of course, I have to defend against all these various formations, but a lack of concentration is not how I would conduct operations. I am hoping this scattering of forces will make encirclements more difficult to achieve.

[CapAndGown]

The Germans achieved their patented Lvov pocket, only instead of a first turn move as in WitE1, it took them two turns to achieve it in this game. Nevertheless, it is not cool having a number of my mountain divisions encircled. The only saving grace was that we were able to open the pocket and evacuate all our support units out of the trap.

I set the VVS to bombing two panzer divisions at the tip of the German spearhead. What I did not realize is that unit bombing can also lead to interdiction, not just in the hexes where the units that were bombed were located, but in hexes with no units in them but within the radius of the air directive box. So four hexes at the tip of the German spearhead were interdicted. Don't know that it will actually slow the Germans down at all since these are clear hexes, but it was a side effect I had not anticipated.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

...
I set the VVS to bombing two panzer divisions at the tip of the German spearhead. What I did not realize is that unit bombing can also lead to interdiction, not just in the hexes where the units that were bombed were located, but in hexes with no units in them but within the radius of the air directive box. So four hexes at the tip of the German spearhead were interdicted. Don't know that it will actually slow the Germans down at all since these are clear hexes, but it was a side effect I had not anticipated.
..

covered in 18.1.4

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Could you not have gotten more out of the Lvov pocket before turn 2?

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Could you not have gotten more out of the Lvov pocket before turn 2?

I tried, but the rail capacity/movement wasn't there. I railed out one mech division (which you can kind of see in post #2, although it is covered by a tank division from the Southern Front). If the mountain divisions had been sitting on rail hexes at the start of the turn I could have gotten them out by rail, but after moving to the nearest rail hex it became clear they would have to walk out of the pocket. As can be seen in post #2 I was trying to retreat out of the pocket and strengthen the section between Chertkav and Kamenets-Podolsky, but nothing the Soviets have right now can stand in the way of massed panzers.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Could you not have gotten more out of the Lvov pocket before turn 2?

I tried, but the rail capacity/movement wasn't there. I railed out one mech division (which you can kind of see in post #2, although it is covered by a tank division from the Southern Front). If the mountain divisions had been sitting on rail hexes at the start of the turn I could have gotten them out by rail, but after moving to the nearest rail hex it became clear they would have to walk out of the pocket. As can be seen in post #2 I was trying to retreat out of the pocket and strengthen the section between Chertkav and Kamenets-Podolsky, but nothing the Soviets have right now can stand in the way of massed panzers.

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Could you not have gotten more out of the Lvov pocket before turn 2?

I tried, but the rail capacity/movement wasn't there. I railed out one mech division (which you can kind of see in post #2, although it is covered by a tank division from the Southern Front). If the mountain divisions had been sitting on rail hexes at the start of the turn I could have gotten them out by rail, but after moving to the nearest rail hex it became clear they would have to walk out of the pocket. As can be seen in post #2 I was trying to retreat out of the pocket and strengthen the section between Chertkav and Kamenets-Podolsky, but nothing the Soviets have right now can stand in the way of massed panzers.

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown



I tried, but the rail capacity/movement wasn't there. I railed out one mech division (which you can kind of see in post #2, although it is covered by a tank division from the Southern Front). If the mountain divisions had been sitting on rail hexes at the start of the turn I could have gotten them out by rail, but after moving to the nearest rail hex it became clear they would have to walk out of the pocket. As can be seen in post #2 I was trying to retreat out of the pocket and strengthen the section between Chertkav and Kamenets-Podolsky, but nothing the Soviets have right now can stand in the way of massed panzers.

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

Understood.

I like live and let fight another day. But I understand.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

Disbanding troops that have no possibility of escape and thereby preserving their equipment as well as their manpower is an exploit. If that is going to remain possible in the game, then people should play with a house rule against it. Basically you are railing out a bunch of equipment to abstracted "reserves" using non-existent rail capacity. That should not be possible.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

Disbanding troops that have no possibility of escape and thereby preserving their equipment as well as their manpower is an exploit. If that is going to remain possible in the game, then people should play with a house rule against it. Basically you are railing out a bunch of equipment to abstracted "reserves" using non-existent rail capacity. That should not be possible.

Agreed. I believe you should be able to reach a rail hex connected to the national network in order to disband.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I would have disbanded them. But that is just me.

Disbanding troops that have no possibility of escape and thereby preserving their equipment as well as their manpower is an exploit. If that is going to remain possible in the game, then people should play with a house rule against it. Basically you are railing out a bunch of equipment to abstracted "reserves" using non-existent rail capacity. That should not be possible.

Agreed. I believe you should be able to reach a rail hex connected to the national network in order to disband.

Even then, ideally how many divisions you can disband ought to be limited by how much rail capacity you have in that area. If e.g. you want to disband 30 divisions in a massive pocket but only have sufficient rail capacity to move 8 divisions out, then you should only be able to disband 8 divisions. Basically the process of disbanding should reduce your rail capacity at the location you disband them. Likewise with transferring units to the national reserve. In reality they would not get moved to the rear by magic, after all.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: CapAndGown

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1



Disbanding troops that have no possibility of escape and thereby preserving their equipment as well as their manpower is an exploit. If that is going to remain possible in the game, then people should play with a house rule against it. Basically you are railing out a bunch of equipment to abstracted "reserves" using non-existent rail capacity. That should not be possible.

Agreed. I believe you should be able to reach a rail hex connected to the national network in order to disband.

Even then, ideally how many divisions you can disband ought to be limited by how much rail capacity you have in that area. If e.g. you want to disband 30 divisions in a massive pocket but only have sufficient rail capacity to move 8 divisions out, then you should only be able to disband 8 divisions. Basically the process of disbanding should reduce your rail capacity at the location you disband them. Likewise with transferring units to the national reserve. In reality they would not get moved to the rear by magic, after all.

Now to get the powers to be to code that in. That would be great!