Range by hex

[William the Silent]

The range for ranged units is given in kilometers.
Since the 0.25 km/hex was added is it not better to give range in hexes?

Btw. If I put artillery in an infantry unit (non ranged), does the artillery have the same effect in combat as when I put them in a ranged unit?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: William the Silent

The range for ranged units is given in kilometers.
Since the 0.25 km/hex was added is it not better to give range in hexes?

I'm not sure what you mean. The range of equipment is given in kilometres, but the range of the unit is displayed in hexes.

Btw. If I put artillery in an infantry unit (non ranged), does the artillery have the same effect in combat as when I put them in a ranged unit?

No. We did a fair bit of testing on this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4956581

In effect, the game treats ranged equipment in a non-ranged unit as if it's firing directly; net, this means that ranged equipment is about twice as effective if it's in a unit with a ranged icon.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: William the Silent

Btw. If I put artillery in an infantry unit (non ranged), does the artillery have the same effect in combat as when I put them in a ranged unit?

Somehow physics changes and artillery uses the Bizzaro World physics model. [:D]

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Somehow physics changes and artillery uses the Bizzaro World physics model. [:D]

It's not really a problem provided the designer is aware of it.

[Lobster]

The following is simply an opinion.

Depends on what you are shooting for. TOAW could be called The Operational Art of Workaround. [:D]

[governato]

can you have double icons assigned to a unit? 'd that help ?

[governato]

can you have double icons assigned to a unit? 'd that help ?

[Lobster]

You mean an infantry as the main and artillery as a secondary? Sure. I tried it once and when attacking with a unit arranged that way it always went off as a bombardment. [&:]

[William the Silent]

I'm not sure what you mean. The range of equipment is given in kilometres, but the range of the unit is displayed in hexes.

At 0.25 km/hex setting your lowest range is 1km. That translates into 5 hexes range.
But there is no option at 3 hexes or 7 hexes for instance.

[William the Silent]

In effect, the game treats ranged equipment in a non-ranged unit as if it's firing directly; net, this means that ranged equipment is about twice as effective if it's in a unit with a ranged icon.

So you would put infantry guns, AT guns in a non ranged icon unit? AT guns and a 75mm in a tank operate in direct fire.
Designer choice.

Btw. that "ranged unit/non ranged unit artillery effect" topic helped me to understand the inner workings of the game better. It's a complicated game to understand, but with mainipulation of the tools you get (and understand) you can create a pretty realistic game (if you want that).

Without help from this forum you would get lost in trying to understand all workings of the game.
So thanks for all the replies always.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: William the Silent

At 0.25 km/hex setting your lowest range is 1km. That translates into 5 hexes range.
But there is no option at 3 hexes or 7 hexes for instance.

Well if you're at that scale you're going to have bigger problems. For example, how come you can't see the other troops two hexes over? That's only 500 metres and it's open ground.

[Lobster]

Maybe some day there will be line of sight in TOAW. But then might as well just build a whole new game.

[William the Silent]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Well if you're at that scale you're going to have bigger problems. For example, how come you can't see the other troops two hexes over? That's only 500 metres and it's open ground.

Recon: Skirmishers and cavalry screen.
Effective artillery range napoleonic actually was about 700 m.
And after some fighting you couldn't see much anyway through the smoke [:)]

But it actually is not a big issue for me. It's fine like it is.

[rhinobones]

For example, how come you can't see the other troops two hexes over? That's only 500 metres and it's open ground.

An adjustment to the Theater Recon value should be able to take care of the problem.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


An adjustment to the Theater Recon value should be able to take care of the problem.

No it won't. Theatre recon causes hexes to randomise to "observed" or "spotted" irrespective of whether any friendly units are nearby. So you either have a God's eye view or assume that there's smoke over the whole map all the time.

Personally I also think a Napoleonic game needs Napoleonic command and control, too. The great generals of the era figured out how to win battles even though their subordinates would not be under their direct control during the battle itself. If you have full command and control, you might as well be playing Age of Empires.

[William the Silent]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


An adjustment to the Theater Recon value should be able to take care of the problem.

Personally I also think a Napoleonic game needs Napoleonic command and control, too. The great generals of the era figured out how to win battles even though their subordinates would not be under their direct control during the battle itself. If you have full command and control, you might as well be playing Age of Empires.

I think TOAW IV has plenty of tools to make a realistic tactical napoleonic game. Little manipulation does a lot.

You are right about the command. And there was seldom a clear view on the enemy during battle. Napoleon send his heavy cavalry up the hill at Waterloo, because he thought Wellington was retreating or disordered. But he couldn't see. Part of Wellingtons strategy and fog of war. Once the french found out there were just unbreakable squares they still kept attacking. No commander stopped the suicidle action.
Nappy even didn't know if the troops approuching from the east were prussian or french.
Wellington had to trust Blucher to come to his aide (or be able to make it in time) and hold his ground. Had Blucher not come in time the battle would have been lost.

Blucher's action won the battle of Waterloo. So did Blucher's action at Leipzig. Very underrated general.

Austerlitz also was not a clear vision battle. Many pre battle orders and choices from sub commanders decided the battle.

[Curtis Lemay]

I'm still stumped as to what game (board or PC) Ben is thinking of that has aide-de-camp rules. For sure there are tons of pre-radio tactical games right here at Matrix that don't use any such factor. And board games generally don't even have fog-of-war.

If TOAW can do as well as the old board games I base them on, I'm happy.

[Lobster]

I remember some of the games where they had us use screens to simulate fog of war. Don't cough or the fog dissipates. [:D]

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Don't cough or the fog dissipates. [:D]

And then there was the "map trampoline": A part of the map gets a bow in it, and, after being depressed for a while, suddenly pops concave - with a volcano spray of counters everywhere!

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I'm still stumped as to what game (board or PC) Ben is thinking of that has aide-de-camp rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_ ... odino_1812

From 1987.